Do Planes Really Float?
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Do Planes Really Float?
We have all seen those nice graphics on the nice laminated card that you get in the seat pocket of a plane (fully intact) floating on the water with life rafts full of passergers floating away from the plane.
In reality all of the water crashes recently have amounted to total destruction of the aircraft with complete loss of life.
So my question is: Can a plane safely land on water and can plane float? Or are these nice graphics just leading passengers into a false sense of security?
In reality all of the water crashes recently have amounted to total destruction of the aircraft with complete loss of life.
So my question is: Can a plane safely land on water and can plane float? Or are these nice graphics just leading passengers into a false sense of security?
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Only seaplanes or purpose-built amphibious aircraft and even then the landing requires skill and technique. Conventional aircraft of any size usually disassemble themselves into twisted aluminium alloy and shattered cabin trimmings unless the pilot(s) have incredible skill and an equal amount of luck. This doesn't occur very often.
Hitting water at high speed is like hitting concrete at high speed. I'd have more faith in those safety cards if they showed the outer wings ripped off, the engine-pods missing and the fuselage in several pieces with some obviously drowned bodies floating face-down in the water.
Pax to FA: "Excuse me Miss, do these planes crash often?"
FA to Pax: "No sir, just once usually does it!"
Hitting water at high speed is like hitting concrete at high speed. I'd have more faith in those safety cards if they showed the outer wings ripped off, the engine-pods missing and the fuselage in several pieces with some obviously drowned bodies floating face-down in the water.
Pax to FA: "Excuse me Miss, do these planes crash often?"
FA to Pax: "No sir, just once usually does it!"
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Criticalmass has it right for all the open ocean/water stuff I can recall. I don't believe ther has been but 1 commercial airliner jet ditching ever and a quick search of all NTSB reports from 1996 on doesn't show any.
ON THE OTHER HAND I do recall several rejected takeoff/ landing long accidents at LGA where the aircraft ended up all or partly in Jamaica Bay where the cushions/ lifejackets came in very handy. ther was an accident a number of years ago where a Boeing jet of some kind (I think 727) in Pensacola FL ended up in Escambia Bay and everybody (or just about everybody) lived to tell about it.
Bottom line appears to be on the basis or a very small (thank goodness) data base open ocean type ditching from altitude odds are against, may not make much difference whether you have floatation or not. In the off the runway into the bay, river, etc situation the floataion devices can save your a** big time. Nobody who ever saw the video of the rescue after the Air Florida 737 crash at DCA will ever go anywhere without life jackets or equal.
ON THE OTHER HAND I do recall several rejected takeoff/ landing long accidents at LGA where the aircraft ended up all or partly in Jamaica Bay where the cushions/ lifejackets came in very handy. ther was an accident a number of years ago where a Boeing jet of some kind (I think 727) in Pensacola FL ended up in Escambia Bay and everybody (or just about everybody) lived to tell about it.
Bottom line appears to be on the basis or a very small (thank goodness) data base open ocean type ditching from altitude odds are against, may not make much difference whether you have floatation or not. In the off the runway into the bay, river, etc situation the floataion devices can save your a** big time. Nobody who ever saw the video of the rescue after the Air Florida 737 crash at DCA will ever go anywhere without life jackets or equal.
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well... ever heard of a "floatplane"?
seriously though, I agree, no point in highlighting those little exits, just leave via the gaping hole where the fuse broke in half
but to digress, I end up on the BA shuttle LGW-MAN-LGW positioning quite a bit, and am curious, I sit through the " in the event of a landing on water" brief patiently, but in reality can you even find water to hit on this route? you would certainly have to work hard to actually end up in it.
seriously though, I agree, no point in highlighting those little exits, just leave via the gaping hole where the fuse broke in half
but to digress, I end up on the BA shuttle LGW-MAN-LGW positioning quite a bit, and am curious, I sit through the " in the event of a landing on water" brief patiently, but in reality can you even find water to hit on this route? you would certainly have to work hard to actually end up in it.
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Can't recall any jets doing it. Do remember reading about a Boeing Stratocruiser in the 50's outbound from HNL for the west coast. Headwinds and ran out of fuel. No options. Luckily found a ship and ditched close to it. Aircraft ditched intact, floated for awhile and everyone survived, I believe.
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Well, the 707 will float... at least, when it's on its way to pick up a load of fish.
http://www.avweb.com/articles/707swim/
http://www.avweb.com/articles/707swim/
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Aircraft with underwing nacelles tend to do a dirty dive when they hit the surface.
Aircraft with engines in the wings fare better. Which is why an RAF Nimrod (military modified version of the Comet) did a successful ditching off RAF Kinloss a few years back after an engine/wing fire.
Broke it's back but floated.
Aircraft with engines in the wings fare better. Which is why an RAF Nimrod (military modified version of the Comet) did a successful ditching off RAF Kinloss a few years back after an engine/wing fire.
Broke it's back but floated.
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An RAF Nimrod floated after being successfully ditched (Moray Firth?) about 4 years ago, albeit with the tail broken off.
What I don't understand is why some safety cards show the use of a baby on one's lap to cushion the impact. What do the poor pax who don't have a baby do?
What I don't understand is why some safety cards show the use of a baby on one's lap to cushion the impact. What do the poor pax who don't have a baby do?
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I know two guys who ditched.
One was in an Islander, which ditched 30 miles off Barbados after an engine failure at night. Very hard, of course, to judge where the surface is. Aircraft went down almost immediately. He had 9 pax on board. All were successfully fished out alive, but one unfortunately died of hypothermia on the way to hospital.
The other was in a Turbo Commander off ANU. Went down inside 2 minutes.
One was in an Islander, which ditched 30 miles off Barbados after an engine failure at night. Very hard, of course, to judge where the surface is. Aircraft went down almost immediately. He had 9 pax on board. All were successfully fished out alive, but one unfortunately died of hypothermia on the way to hospital.
The other was in a Turbo Commander off ANU. Went down inside 2 minutes.
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The crew of this Ethiopian Airlines 767-200ER was forced to ditch the aircraft into the sea just off Moroni, Comoros Islands during a hijacking. The aircraft had run out of fuel.
As they had no engines they had minimal control - only the RAT hanging out - and couldn't quite ditch it wings level.
You'll can download the footage of the accident at:
http://www.airdisaster.com/movies/movies.html
As they had no engines they had minimal control - only the RAT hanging out - and couldn't quite ditch it wings level.
You'll can download the footage of the accident at:
http://www.airdisaster.com/movies/movies.html
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The Ethopian 767... that ditching was great considering the fact that there were hijackers in the cockpit, wrestling with the captain for control all the way to the water, so they can crash the plane and kill all aboard! Just looked at a DC-7 or -8 (?) that ditched after losing two motors shortly after take off from MIA. Was in 1992, a freighter from the Dominikan Rebublic.
The newspapers showed the plane intact, just below the surface in the shallow waters close to the beach. The crew made it out just fine and paddled their raft to the beach. The report said that the tail separated, but it appeared to be 'properly' attached to the plane in the picture.
The newspapers showed the plane intact, just below the surface in the shallow waters close to the beach. The crew made it out just fine and paddled their raft to the beach. The report said that the tail separated, but it appeared to be 'properly' attached to the plane in the picture.
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I note from Macarthur Job's "Air Disaster" Vol 1, pp67-73 than an Overseas National Airways DC9-33F, N935F, ditched and retained enough structural integrity for 35 of the 63 onboard to survive and be rescued. How many were killed on impact and how many died of exposure post-impact is unknown.
The a/c stayed afloat for about 10 mins. This is apparently one of very few successful ditchings of a commercial airliner. I note also that the DC9 wing is a clean wing, bereft of engine-pods and notably strongly built. There was speculation that the fuselage underside was breached but the water depth was 5000 feet and recovery of the wreckage was not contemplated. The reason was not in dispute, anyway - fuel starvation.
The a/c stayed afloat for about 10 mins. This is apparently one of very few successful ditchings of a commercial airliner. I note also that the DC9 wing is a clean wing, bereft of engine-pods and notably strongly built. There was speculation that the fuselage underside was breached but the water depth was 5000 feet and recovery of the wreckage was not contemplated. The reason was not in dispute, anyway - fuel starvation.
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A C130 hercules (Columbian Airforce) ditched in the Caribean and floated for 24 hours. It didn't sink till they tried to tow it to the coast.
A 707 ditched in Lake Victoria, Tanzania and everyone got out. It was then towed to the shore and sat on a sandbar.
The problem with ditching is not whether the aircraft will float but the state of the emergency that causes it to be ditched in the first place.
As for the recent water crashes, none of these were an attempt to ditch the aircraft.
A 707 ditched in Lake Victoria, Tanzania and everyone got out. It was then towed to the shore and sat on a sandbar.
The problem with ditching is not whether the aircraft will float but the state of the emergency that causes it to be ditched in the first place.
As for the recent water crashes, none of these were an attempt to ditch the aircraft.
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Rex Omar,
<<In reality all of the water crashes recently have amounted to total destruction of the aircraft with complete loss of life.>>
This is quite wrong. As long as speed is low and wings level, structural integrity can be maintained very well. There is a long list of aircraft that have survived ditching very well, and even flown again. I believe the JAL DC-8 that ditched in Tokyo Bay even flew again. B707 in Africa, others .....
<<In reality all of the water crashes recently have amounted to total destruction of the aircraft with complete loss of life.>>
This is quite wrong. As long as speed is low and wings level, structural integrity can be maintained very well. There is a long list of aircraft that have survived ditching very well, and even flown again. I believe the JAL DC-8 that ditched in Tokyo Bay even flew again. B707 in Africa, others .....
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Some years ago a New Zealand Warbirds society purchased a Catalina from the USA, and flew it back across the Pacific. Mid-ocean it had a multiple-engine failure and had to ditch.
Despite the fact that it was a flying boat, the ditching ruptured the hull, and it sank. Fortunatly eveyone managed to get into life rafts and were rescued.
So, if an a/c that is designed to float doesn't, I don't hold out much hope for those that aren't designed to float.
Despite the fact that it was a flying boat, the ditching ruptured the hull, and it sank. Fortunatly eveyone managed to get into life rafts and were rescued.
So, if an a/c that is designed to float doesn't, I don't hold out much hope for those that aren't designed to float.
