Hard landings, definition
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: lost in space
Hard landings, definition
I don't mean to be the carrier of bad fortune for those who read this question and dare to give an answer, but really need to know :
The definition of a hard landing
Thank you in advance for your answers.
The definition of a hard landing
Thank you in advance for your answers.
Paxing All Over The World
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,841
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From: Hertfordshire, UK.
To add a supplemental question ... Does a 'bounce' count as hard? My guess is not as it might be a gentle bounce?
Hard might depend upon physical damage to the undercarriage? Even if the shocks travel their full distance, if they continue to operate normally, it might still be regarded as 'OK'?
Hard might depend upon physical damage to the undercarriage? Even if the shocks travel their full distance, if they continue to operate normally, it might still be regarded as 'OK'?
Guest
Posts: n/a
I suspect that there is no official answer to this one, simply that if it felt hard then it was, so get it checked as a precaution. That said, I have some old training guidance notes that stated:
"Aircraft are certified for landings at 600fpm at max landing weight and 360fpm at max take-off weight"...
"A normal landing is 120fpm".
I must admit that until I had read this, I had thought that a normal (ie good) landing was almost zero fpm. Notice no mention of "g" which is just as well as my estimation of "g" is probably worse than my estimation of the flare height !
S & L
"Aircraft are certified for landings at 600fpm at max landing weight and 360fpm at max take-off weight"...
"A normal landing is 120fpm".
I must admit that until I had read this, I had thought that a normal (ie good) landing was almost zero fpm. Notice no mention of "g" which is just as well as my estimation of "g" is probably worse than my estimation of the flare height !
S & L
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,991
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From: UK
I think the correct terminology is "heavy" landing rather than "hard".
It's all really very subjective but I guess the safest course of action if you are unhappy about an "arrival" is to report it on the tech log so that licensed engineers can do a proper check. That way we all remain safe whether or not it was heavy.
In the course of a flying career you are almost bound to get a few touchdowns which are firmer than you would like - nothing to be really ashamed of if you are doing the job diligently.
It's all really very subjective but I guess the safest course of action if you are unhappy about an "arrival" is to report it on the tech log so that licensed engineers can do a proper check. That way we all remain safe whether or not it was heavy.
In the course of a flying career you are almost bound to get a few touchdowns which are firmer than you would like - nothing to be really ashamed of if you are doing the job diligently.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 259
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From: delta.bc.canada
Putting out all the pax o2 masks is a good index(once on the 727 at LGA)..Be wise to talk to MTC,they can at least check for leaks etc. 'Heavy' a different Situ',one has to explain via the tech log if one exceeded the above stated criteria.If one touched down smoothly used full reverse-judicious brakes,and all the runway,this might relieve MTC from a 'full' oweight landing check(in some cases 25manhours).
Cheers
Cheers
Joined: Jun 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: OZ
Back in the Good Old Days, the DC8 series had a little Al strip fitted to each MLG oleo at the bottom pointing up. Us groundies checked the strips each transit. If a strip was bent, you did a hard landing check, no ifs or buts. They were known as "lie detectors".
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 17
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From: lost in space
hardlandings
Ok, it can be heavy or hard, but, what kind of parameters should be considered to enter a report in the maint. logbook.
I have left it to my feelings, but it has turned out, that, according to the FDR we have been very close to a "hard" landing, and even, when I have been lucky enough to make a very soft landing (greaser, they call it) the FOQAS has detected high G's, and thus, my (our) landing technique has to be "revised", which has created a great deal of confussion among all the pilots.
That's why we are trying to fing the right technique to land the B-738. And stop a witch hunt in progres in our company.
Keep feeding us with your expertise.
I have left it to my feelings, but it has turned out, that, according to the FDR we have been very close to a "hard" landing, and even, when I have been lucky enough to make a very soft landing (greaser, they call it) the FOQAS has detected high G's, and thus, my (our) landing technique has to be "revised", which has created a great deal of confussion among all the pilots.
That's why we are trying to fing the right technique to land the B-738. And stop a witch hunt in progres in our company.
Keep feeding us with your expertise.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,562
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From: I wouldn't know.
On our -300s we get a printout every time we do a hard landing (>2gs). I use the ACMS to check on some landings, just to train my feeling of the gs i produced. It's sometime really difficult to judge it correctly, a thump might feel like 1,3 or so but is only around 1,15g, but it might be up to 1,5. A greaser is not a good landing per se, but it is around 1,01 to 1,10g or something.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 428
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From: Middle East
A greaser is sometimes the worst thing you can do.......
It might be nice to float down the thing more smoothly than putting a baby in a cot, but that may well be at the expense of having two-thirds of the runway behind you and you've not even got the reversers out....
I'd rather take a firm one in the touchdown zone than 'grease' into farmer giles field at the other end.....
It might be nice to float down the thing more smoothly than putting a baby in a cot, but that may well be at the expense of having two-thirds of the runway behind you and you've not even got the reversers out....
I'd rather take a firm one in the touchdown zone than 'grease' into farmer giles field at the other end.....
