When do you enter final loadsheet figures into FMS

[1201alarm]

I think to remember having heard BA is entering final loadsheet figures into the FMS after going offblocks. Is that memory true and still the case? If yes, what are the SOPs around it? When do you set trim for takeoff? When does the CPT sign the loadsheet?

I guess signing the loadsheet is a legal requirement for the CPT. Does anyone know whether the law needs the signature before offblock or is it enough before starting takeoff roll?

How are other airlines doing it?

We have the principle of flying LMC free, so we get final load calculations only very late, often when all doors are closed, so costing another 2 min before going off block, since you need to crosscheck the figures, enter them, and CPT needs to sign the loadsheet.

Find it a pity that we are not able to leave immediately after all doors are closed.

[deltahotel]

Are you not required to leave a signed copy at the departure airfield?

Recently retired from freight, but would be std-10 (approx) ACARS weight block arrives allowing ZFW, CG to be entered, TOW agreed, TO performance completed, bugs and derate set. When final load sheet arrives, cross check that figures are correct, sign load sheet and leave signed load sheet and NOTOC with the ground staff.

Often an unsigned load sheet arrives shortly before loading complete allowing the cross checking to be done and providing the final signed load sheet has the same issue number/time stamp it can just be signed.

hth

[1201alarm]

Originally Posted by deltahotel

Are you not required to leave a signed copy at the departure airfield?

Yes, we are.

That is why I asked about the BA story of supposingly doing final figures after offblock. I would find it a good thing to have that option instead of waiting for them with doors closed and ready to go.

[FlyingStone]

Just make sure that - in the search for the last second of on time performance - you don't end up in a runway incursion while doing loadsheet/performance during taxi like these guys.

[deltahotel]

I may have misunderstood your words , ‘so we get final load calculations only very late, often when all doors are closed,’ and couldn’t work out how to sign and leave a load sheet if ‘all doors are closed’.

rgds

[Kennytheking]

Operators are going paperless now, so signing and leaving a copy of the loadsheet are outdated. We sign our loadsheet(and accept the flighplan) electronically these days via ACARS.

That said, I would not depart until all the "paperwork" is settled....no need to take problems with you into aa complex operating environment. It's bad enough having to tell ATC that we are waiting for the cabin - I wouldn't want to tell them that we are clogging up their airport waiting for paperwork that should have been sorted ages ago...

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by 1201alarm

Yes, we are.

That is why I asked about the BA story of supposingly doing final figures after offblock. I would find it a good thing to have that option instead of waiting for them with doors closed and ready to go.

How it used to work at BA up until about 2020..:

Provisional figures on paper presented on flight deck maybe 15 min prior to departure..checked, signed copy left at station, provisional figures loaded into FMC/FMGS.

Off block final figures received by datalink and acknowledged by the same. If there were any significant changes from the provisional LS (what constituted “significant” defined in the manuals) then FMC/FMGS needed a reload and performance reassessed.

I think changes were in the offing when I left, someone might provide info on the current set up.

[Check Airman]

Not BA, but we usually get the load sheet after pushback. Trim is set at that time. No signature required.

[1201alarm]

Thanks for all the answers. So there are definitively other ways of doing it - ways that seems to allow a better workload distribution.

And I realise what I said might have lead to some confusions: we also sign the loadsheet digitally, but it has to be signed before going offblocks. So we leave a "digitally signed copy" at departure.

[champair79]

Wiggy is mostly right about BA although all loadsheets are done by ACARS now unless it’s unserviceable.

Preliminary loadsheet arrives at -40 (-30 on shorthaul). Performance is calculated based off these figures with a safety margin factored in. During the taxi out, a final loadsheet is produced which is a simplified version of the preliminary. This states whether it’s within certain tolerances of the preliminary or not. If it’s ‘compliant’, you can depart and update the ZFW and CG at a point of low workload usually in the climb. If it’s not compliant, then you may need to re-run the takeoff performance and/or reset the trim.

Signatures are now electronic too - the acknowledge prompt on ACARS acts as the signature. Also, LMCs aren’t allowed anymore. The final loadsheet should reflect the conditions of the aircraft (pax, freight, fuel etc).

[1201alarm]

Thanks, champair.

Some further questions: the signature via ACARS is for the final loadsheet, right?

And I gather from your description that often you guys do not use max. possible flex temperature for final weight, since you calculate performance with some buffer with preliminary load figures which might only be updated after liftoff if withing certain limits.

[shared reality]

In my outfit we normally receive our final Loadsheet via ACARS 5 or so min before ETD, and sign it via a prompt in the FMS. This is always sorted before pushback.

[Amadis of Gaul]

Originally Posted by Kennytheking

Operators are going paperless now, so signing and leaving a copy of the loadsheet are outdated. We sign our loadsheet(and accept the flighplan) electronically these days via ACARS.

Gotta love the Rip Van Winkles of the world sometimes. I'm surprised he didn't ask about sending a telex.