Embraer Enhanced Take Off System (E²TS)
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,776
Likes: 353
From: UK
Embraer Enhanced Take Off System (E²TS)
Embraer are to introduce an enhanced takeoff system which appears to involve automatic rotation, or at least flight directed rotation.
How might such a certification relate to conventional performance techniques based on human ability - variability, thus requiring margins for piloted input.
A comment from the LinkedIn forum
"So it appears the key in their patent, is that autoflight is more reliable for initial climb out, closer to the 'ideal' & more reliable - therefore can get rid of some of the safety margins afforded to human pilots - especially under engine-fail conditions." (reliable ≈ accuracy ?)
Does this mark a change in performance certification policy, accepting that automation is more accurate than manual flight - not to debate the technical reliability aspects, but those of the accuracy of piloted control - 'not requiring exceptional skill' ; also cf manual land vs autoland.
https://www.flightglobal.com/air-tra...159406.article
https://aviationweek.com/shownews/fa...offs-e2-family
Perhaps start with the diagrams in this link
https://patentimages.storage.googlea...P2533122A2.pdf
How might such a certification relate to conventional performance techniques based on human ability - variability, thus requiring margins for piloted input.
A comment from the LinkedIn forum
"So it appears the key in their patent, is that autoflight is more reliable for initial climb out, closer to the 'ideal' & more reliable - therefore can get rid of some of the safety margins afforded to human pilots - especially under engine-fail conditions." (reliable ≈ accuracy ?)
Does this mark a change in performance certification policy, accepting that automation is more accurate than manual flight - not to debate the technical reliability aspects, but those of the accuracy of piloted control - 'not requiring exceptional skill' ; also cf manual land vs autoland.
https://www.flightglobal.com/air-tra...159406.article
https://aviationweek.com/shownews/fa...offs-e2-family
Perhaps start with the diagrams in this link
https://patentimages.storage.googlea...P2533122A2.pdf
Joined: Sep 2008
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 940
Likes: 57
From: Scotland
This has been a big subject of discussion in our office since they debuted it at Farnborough. The patent is fascinating but the presentation was light on flight test/certification milestones.
I am not involved in anything Embraer but it’s a a v innovative step, kudos to them. I would imagine for the likes of London City or places like Innsbruck some big performance boosts available but certification will be a a nightmare. Given autoland has an easy contingency case (go around) by comparison I can see some big headaches.
edited to add - thank you for the patent as it’s the most detail I’ve seen on the subject.
They will have to demonstrate to the regulator that the probability of failure is low enough and the system robust enough to deal with all the potential failure cases and meet the required performance if they are sharp pencilling down to Perf A min margins which having done some (sim only) testing of engine out procedures at real performance limiting cases are pretty eye opening even with margins sufficient for my very average pilot techniques.
I am not involved in anything Embraer but it’s a a v innovative step, kudos to them. I would imagine for the likes of London City or places like Innsbruck some big performance boosts available but certification will be a a nightmare. Given autoland has an easy contingency case (go around) by comparison I can see some big headaches.
edited to add - thank you for the patent as it’s the most detail I’ve seen on the subject.
They will have to demonstrate to the regulator that the probability of failure is low enough and the system robust enough to deal with all the potential failure cases and meet the required performance if they are sharp pencilling down to Perf A min margins which having done some (sim only) testing of engine out procedures at real performance limiting cases are pretty eye opening even with margins sufficient for my very average pilot techniques.
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,349
Likes: 843
From: Tring, UK
According to Affonso (Engineering SVP for Embraer), upon lining up on the runway, pilots will select the auto-takeoff mode along with autothrottle and engage the autopilot. They will still manually correct heading with the pedals if needed. The takeoff roll is initiated by pushing the power levers forward to engage the autothrottle. “The only thing that changes is that pilots do not rotate the aircraft themselves,” Affonso said. They will still have their hands on the yoke, just like they would during an automatic landing.
If the margins are going to be reduced to the bare minimum and the pilots are supposed to intervene in the event of it not going right, how do they know that this is what is happening? And if it happens after losing an engine after V1, will they be able to fly it accurately enough to clear obstacles?
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,776
Likes: 353
From: UK
FW, the proposals can be interpreted as maximising performance without changing the existing margins required by certification. In some, most instances the take off will have greater altitude margins because the control seeks the best speed-pitch combination for the thrust available.
'The best pilot, best accuracy, consistency - everyday'
There is no expectation for pilot intervention. By using the exiting autoflight system the existing protections can be used, i.e. as for autoland or FD.
A V1 engine failure might involve rudder compensation; some aircraft have this, does Embraer.
Additionally, with auto control of pitch - speed (the basis of the optimisation) the piloting workload is significantly reduced; no need for manual wiggle corrections to match attitude to speed.
'The best pilot, best accuracy, consistency - everyday'
There is no expectation for pilot intervention. By using the exiting autoflight system the existing protections can be used, i.e. as for autoland or FD.
A V1 engine failure might involve rudder compensation; some aircraft have this, does Embraer.
Additionally, with auto control of pitch - speed (the basis of the optimisation) the piloting workload is significantly reduced; no need for manual wiggle corrections to match attitude to speed.
