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Weather Contingency and PAN PAN

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Weather Contingency and PAN PAN

Old 13th Jul 2023, 18:50
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Weather Contingency and PAN PAN

Hi
Assume,ypu are on NAT HLA and you need to deviate due weather,
1st scenario: You asked ATC to deviate right, but Controlling ATC approved for left only, but you are unable to divert left due CBs. So for the safety of plane you decided to deviate right with Weather Contingency Procedure (+/-300 feet); Would you announce or declare urgency message like PAN PAN?
2 nd scenario: For the safety of your plane you need to deviate right or left but unable to contact and get approval from Controlling ATC. You decided to divert either side with Weather Contingency Procedure (+/-300 feet); Would you announce or declare urgency message like PAN PAN?

Folks, your comments are needed,
Thanks and regards

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Old 13th Jul 2023, 20:23
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ATC is ultimately an advisory service. The pilot in command of any aircraft has the right to take action to preserve the safety of the flight. You need to be able to justify your actions, which for a competent PIC should not be an issue. I suspect that you are really overthinking this.
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Old 13th Jul 2023, 20:57
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Private jet
Thank you for your post
I am not judging PIC decision for safety of airplane, I am just asking whether a PAN PAN call is worth, otherwise PIC could be blamed for not doing this call outs
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Old 13th Jul 2023, 21:42
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if you listen to ATC in Texas during the Spring, it is not uncommon for an airline flight declare emergency due to required deviation

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Old 14th Jul 2023, 06:20
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Originally Posted by JABBARA
Hi
Assume,ypu are on NAT HLA and you need to deviate due weather,
1st scenario: You asked ATC to deviate right, but Controlling ATC approved for left only, but you are unable to divert left due CBs. So for the safety of plane you decided to deviate right with Weather Contingency Procedure (+/-300 feet); Would you announce or declare urgency message like PAN PAN?
2 nd scenario: For the safety of your plane you need to deviate right or left but unable to contact and get approval from Controlling ATC. You decided to divert either side with Weather Contingency Procedure (+/-300 feet); Would you announce or declare urgency message like PAN PAN?

Folks, your comments are needed,
Thanks and regards
Both scenarios are covered by the situation where a needed deviation clearance cannot be obtained from ATC. The procedure to be followed by the PIC is in AIP ENR 2.2 para 2.4.3. There are nine parts to the procedure and the 300FT level change is only initiated when deviations are >5NM.
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Old 14th Jul 2023, 07:02
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parishiltons
Both scenarios are covered by the situation where a needed deviation clearance cannot be obtained from ATC. The procedure to be followed by the PIC is in AIP ENR 2.2 para 2.4.3. There are nine parts to the procedure and the 300FT level change is only initiated when deviations are >5NM.
Thank you for your answer. However I am not asking "what is the avoiding procedure", that is written everywhere.
My Question is since this avoidance is considered a "contingency, would you call PAN PAN?
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Old 14th Jul 2023, 09:43
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Originally Posted by JABBARA
Thank you for your answer. However I am not asking "what is the avoiding procedure", that is written everywhere.
My Question is since this avoidance is considered a "contingency, would you call PAN PAN?
I would notify ATC that I REQUIRE WEATHER DEVIATION and would go from there. ICAO doc 4444 (15.2.3) has guidance on this. As long as you stated your intentions you have “ticked the boxes” and complied with the regulations as far as I understand them.
There is nothing wrong with declaring PAN if the clearance isn’t suitable. It suggests using the urgency phrase “if required”.

Last edited by ScepticalOptomist; 14th Jul 2023 at 09:58.
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Old 14th Jul 2023, 20:00
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Sceptical Optomist

I would notify ATC that I REQUIRE WEATHER DEVIATION and would go from there. ICAO doc 4444 (15.2.3) has guidance on this. As long as you stated your intentions you have “ticked the boxes” and complied with the regulations as far as I understand them.
There is nothing wrong with declaring PAN if the clearance isn’t suitable. It suggests using the urgency phrase “if required”.
That is I was seeking thank you
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