RTO/Overweight landing BRAKE issues
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 4
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From: Porto
RTO/Overweight landing BRAKE issues
Recent event about PAX evac due hot brakes makes us think and I have questions:
why airline operational departments/training does not provide better guidelines in alignment with local airport fire departments ?
At least in the operational base
As a B777 Captain, I have the same lack of understanding of what would be the most effective action.
additionally, I have no information about fire crews actions in regards to brake cooling procedures….
is there any procedure they are trained to implement for brake cooling?
In my mind, I would: vacate stop in the runway, set parting brake, advise crew for alert (possible evacuation), turn on APU, request coordination with tower/fire command to vacate the runway, stop, shutdown engines, release parking brake. Keep the alert until brakes are cold enough, request towing to a gate.
we have approximately 10/15 min for brakes to reach top temperatures and we can use this time, however, there are no guidelines that I have heard about.
fire brigade may use any agent to help cool the brakes ? What would it be? Should we request for it?
this “stopping in the runway” may not be necessary, as we have a considerable time until brake temp becomes an issue, and tires deflates, so why not create a guideline? We will mostly stop in the runway because this is “expected” and we will likely be criticized if we don’t. Stopping in the runway may, in most cases, be a waste of time and efficiency. But it may be considered “procedural” and even as captains, we are not that much entitled to decide for the best course of action, even when no harm resulted.
I would like to know more.
why airline operational departments/training does not provide better guidelines in alignment with local airport fire departments ?
At least in the operational base
As a B777 Captain, I have the same lack of understanding of what would be the most effective action.
additionally, I have no information about fire crews actions in regards to brake cooling procedures….
is there any procedure they are trained to implement for brake cooling?
In my mind, I would: vacate stop in the runway, set parting brake, advise crew for alert (possible evacuation), turn on APU, request coordination with tower/fire command to vacate the runway, stop, shutdown engines, release parking brake. Keep the alert until brakes are cold enough, request towing to a gate.
we have approximately 10/15 min for brakes to reach top temperatures and we can use this time, however, there are no guidelines that I have heard about.
fire brigade may use any agent to help cool the brakes ? What would it be? Should we request for it?
this “stopping in the runway” may not be necessary, as we have a considerable time until brake temp becomes an issue, and tires deflates, so why not create a guideline? We will mostly stop in the runway because this is “expected” and we will likely be criticized if we don’t. Stopping in the runway may, in most cases, be a waste of time and efficiency. But it may be considered “procedural” and even as captains, we are not that much entitled to decide for the best course of action, even when no harm resulted.
I would like to know more.
Joined: Apr 2004
Aviation Qualifications: LAME
Posts: 2,281
Likes: 189
From: Dorset UK
Had a hot brake due to binding at Leipzig. Smoke seen by tower as we got on stand. Fire crews used a big fan to cool the wheel and brake. They wouldn't let the steps come to the aircraft, so we were ready to blow a slide if it turned into a fire. (Cargo flight, only 3 on board).
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,776
Likes: 351
From: UK
Judgement
It is difficult (impossible) to have a procedure for every situation; at best guidelines, and sim experience of unlikely, surprising situations.
Continuous evaluation of risk.
Certification requires a stop with max kinetic energy, wait for 5 min before taking fire action, if required, not all brakes burn or tyres deflate.
Max KE unlikely to be encountered, not with overweight landing - distance available.
Time to exit the runway and reconsider.
Assess the reason for the RTO - a fire or engine failure.
Judgement of risk from this could be more important than hot brakes. cf 737 Manchester, cabin smoke.
Continuous evaluation of risk.
Certification requires a stop with max kinetic energy, wait for 5 min before taking fire action, if required, not all brakes burn or tyres deflate.
Max KE unlikely to be encountered, not with overweight landing - distance available.
Time to exit the runway and reconsider.
Assess the reason for the RTO - a fire or engine failure.
Judgement of risk from this could be more important than hot brakes. cf 737 Manchester, cabin smoke.
