Anti-Ice fluid frozen on Airframe
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Anti-Ice fluid frozen on Airframe
Had a nasty incident out of YUL some time back. Anti-ice fluid didn't flow off during takeoff. Was frozen to fuselage and wings. Almost had a tail strike during lift off, followed by struggle to get to cruise alt, increase in fuel burn leading to panic and hasty coordination with ATC to find a way to make destination with enough fuel.
Was a two step procedure. Anti Ice was type 4 at 100%. Light snow, temp around minus 2 degrees. Aircraft is composite not aluminum.
Went back to YUL a few months later and had to have the two step done again, same fluid, but no issues that time around. Roughly similar met conditions.
Anyone have any experience/idea of what could have caused the fluid to freeze to the aircraft?
Was a two step procedure. Anti Ice was type 4 at 100%. Light snow, temp around minus 2 degrees. Aircraft is composite not aluminum.
Went back to YUL a few months later and had to have the two step done again, same fluid, but no issues that time around. Roughly similar met conditions.
Anyone have any experience/idea of what could have caused the fluid to freeze to the aircraft?
No, but maybe the mix was incorrect, with too much water content for the conditions, so it froze. Or the airframe was not properly clear of ice after de-icing. Or you went beyond your maximum hold-over time for the conditions?
So your full-and-free check just before take-off was OK, but the controls froze during the take-off roll? Or was the wing iced? Weird.
Had an elevator freeze solid in the cruise on a BAe 146, which was alarming. We pushed and pulled on the yokes, and it eventually broke free with a big shudder through the aircraft.
So your full-and-free check just before take-off was OK, but the controls froze during the take-off roll? Or was the wing iced? Weird.
Had an elevator freeze solid in the cruise on a BAe 146, which was alarming. We pushed and pulled on the yokes, and it eventually broke free with a big shudder through the aircraft.
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It seems unlikely that the aircraft was not properly deiced as the fluid was frozen all over the aircraft, I.e. fuselage, both wings etc.
According to the deicing company they were providing us 100%, would there be any water added to that? Your theory of the possibility of an excess amount of water in the fluid seems to make sense until I realized that given the conditions even 50/50 would have been more than adequate. We were airborne within 15 minutes of the start of holdover.
And yes the flight control checks were obviously carried out after the procedure was complete, and without issue. There was no issue with the controls. But the fluid was frozen all over both wings and on the fuselage. We used the camera and could not see the colour of the top of our fuselage. The rear half of the top and sides of the fuselage was covered with frozen fluid.
According to the deicing company they were providing us 100%, would there be any water added to that? Your theory of the possibility of an excess amount of water in the fluid seems to make sense until I realized that given the conditions even 50/50 would have been more than adequate. We were airborne within 15 minutes of the start of holdover.
And yes the flight control checks were obviously carried out after the procedure was complete, and without issue. There was no issue with the controls. But the fluid was frozen all over both wings and on the fuselage. We used the camera and could not see the colour of the top of our fuselage. The rear half of the top and sides of the fuselage was covered with frozen fluid.
I wonder how old the fluid was. It does deteriorate over time.
What fluid was used for the first step?
What fluid was used for the first step?
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Hmmm...yeah maybe due less flying they pulled out some of their old stock! But that stuff has to have a use by date, We're talking about people's lives that they're playing with here. I don't think they'd spray on anything that was past its shelf life.
The first step was type 1. Can't remember the concentration.
The first step was type 1. Can't remember the concentration.
Don't get it wrong but as it really prudent to carry on with the flight under such circumstances?
Regardless of the above wasn't it possible to collect a sample of the frozen de-icing material for further analysis? Did it melt fully before touchdown?
Regardless of the above wasn't it possible to collect a sample of the frozen de-icing material for further analysis? Did it melt fully before touchdown?
Did you tell the company providing the fluid about what happened?
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Although I didn't go out to check I was told that the aircraft was dripping with fluid after we had landed.
Unfortunately those responsible for reporting these types of events at my company often times dont because they 'dont want the trouble.' Their only goal is a salary at the end of the month, beyond that they're not that bothered about aviation or aviating, and is why I often end up asking questions on this forum.
It's shocking, I know, but it's the unfortunate reality of a company where people are so scared of losing their jobs that even in normal times (leave alone COVID times) most would not desire to report for fear of some kind of blame being pointed toward them. Even when it's clear that the event was of no fault of their own and it would be of benefit to the company and/or other parties to know about an event. But that's a whole other topic for another thread.
On another note are samples of fluid from each batch of liquid not stored in case events of this nature do occur?
Unfortunately those responsible for reporting these types of events at my company often times dont because they 'dont want the trouble.' Their only goal is a salary at the end of the month, beyond that they're not that bothered about aviation or aviating, and is why I often end up asking questions on this forum.
It's shocking, I know, but it's the unfortunate reality of a company where people are so scared of losing their jobs that even in normal times (leave alone COVID times) most would not desire to report for fear of some kind of blame being pointed toward them. Even when it's clear that the event was of no fault of their own and it would be of benefit to the company and/or other parties to know about an event. But that's a whole other topic for another thread.
On another note are samples of fluid from each batch of liquid not stored in case events of this nature do occur?
Last edited by Airmann; 22nd May 2021 at 17:23.
Could you give us the name of this airline please, so we can avoid it.
