A320 Flap3 landing to save fuel

[FlightDetent]

[Fursty Ferret]

Should just be a volume control. That goes up to 11, of course...

Can’t count the number of times I’ve wanted “lodium” setting.

[Check Airman]

Originally Posted by FlightDetent

As in 1-2-3-max-RTO? Could not agree more.

LOL

you win the Internet today, sir

[Check Airman]

Originally Posted by Fursty Ferret

Should just be a volume control. That goes up to 11, of course...

Can’t count the number of times I’ve wanted “lodium” setting.

I believe what you’re looking for is a Douglas

[img]blob:https://www.pprune.org/ab10eb80-8c41-40e0-9128-b68b4343eea3[/img]

[Check Airman]

Originally Posted by Uplinker

It is spoken: "Flap three". (I heard of one TRE who insisted on "Flaps three" )

Will somebody be considered persona non grata if he admits to saying this? Asking for a friend

[Uplinker]

Not by me

I was told of a TRE in our company conducting a SIM session and insisting that one should say 'flaps.....', not 'flap.....'

I think there are rather more important things to worry about than that.

@FlightDetent; yes, the Boeing auto-brake selector is what I had in mind.

[Check Airman]

That reminds me of one company that insisted the call out for the fully retracted position of the flaps was “zero” and not “up”, because the lever said “0”.

[vilas]

Originally Posted by Check Airman

That reminds me of one company that insisted the call out for the fully retracted position of the flaps was “zero” and not “up”, because the lever said “0”.

That's the way it is in airbus. That's the way the manufacturer teaches. Flaps up is in Boeing. It may appear trivial but slowly this creeps in other things as well. It's problematic where there are expats or pilots transitioned different aircaft each adding his flavor. Then a new human factor is being conceived.

[Check Airman]

After I wrote that, I started to wonder what was written on the lever on the bus. We say “flap/flaps up”. Haven’t come across a language problem so far (unless Texan is a language), but point taken.

[Max Angle]

It is inconsistent, the lever says FLAPS but the label on the screen says FLAP.

[FlightDetent]

Originally Posted by Max Angle

It is inconsistent, the lever says FLAPS but the label on the screen says FLAP.

​​Because on the E/WD it shows the selected position, whereas the selector and its scale offers multiple options?

Sounds a far stretch even by my standards, perhaps it is a French thing.

[compressor stall]

I couldn’t give a rats about FLAP or FLAPS (although Airbus want the plural as per the FCOM), but I do care about Zero vs UP.

You call the position of the Flap, 0,1,2,3 Full.

Gear is binary, DOWN or UP.

Also, to mind there’s less chance of confusion or mishearing. The word UP or DOWN can only be attributed to one action.

That said I acknowledge that Flaps UP has been around for years in the B camp. Not saying it’s wrong, just that it can only be better having a verb associated with one item. After all the flap lever is a flap shape and the gear lever a wheel shape for a reason.

[FlightDetent]

That is an important angle. There was an action slip incident where upon getting airborne the PM retracted the flaps instead of raising the gear.

​​Airbuses more often than not depart with F=1, imagine the statistics if the call for retracting them had been Flaps UP as opposed to today's Flaps ZERO.

[WhatShortage]

Originally Posted by FlightDetent

That is an important angle. There was an action slip incident where upon getting airborne the PM retracted the flaps instead of raising the gear.

​​Airbuses more often than not depart with F=1, imagine the statistics if the call for retracting them had been Flaps UP as opposed to today's Flaps ZERO.

Won't crash neither happen anything dangerous.. Flaps zero at not the proper speed? No problem, the bus is in charge and won't do "much"

[Jwscud]

You might get quite an interesting and unexpected demonstration of low speed protections and alpha lock 😬

[Escape Path]

Originally Posted by WhatShortage

Won't crash neither happen anything dangerous.. Flaps zero at not the proper speed? No problem, the bus is in charge and won't do "much"

I’d be hesitant to describe an airplane failing to respond to your “alpha prot kicked in”-panic-induced nose up input so near to the ground as “no problem”. Alpha prot at around 200ft not dangerous? Jeez, I wouldn’t know about that...

[Check Airman]

Originally Posted by FlightDetent

That is an important angle. There was an action slip incident where upon getting airborne the PM retracted the flaps instead of raising the gear.

​​Airbuses more often than not depart with F=1, imagine the statistics if the call for retracting them had been Flaps UP as opposed to today's Flaps ZERO.

While acknowledging my personal bias, I'll agree that there may be something there. I'd argue though, that it's pretty unlikely that it'll be a problem given that hundreds if not thousands of flights operate(d) every day with the "flaps up" call.

[Check Airman]

Originally Posted by compressor stall

I couldn’t give a rats about FLAP or FLAPS (although Airbus want the plural as per the FCOM), but I do care about Zero vs UP.

You call the position of the Flap, 0,1,2,3 Full.

Gear is binary, DOWN or UP.

Also, to mind there’s less chance of confusion or mishearing. The word UP or DOWN can only be attributed to one action.

That said I acknowledge that Flaps UP has been around for years in the B camp. Not saying it’s wrong, just that it can only be better having a verb associated with one item. After all the flap lever is a flap shape and the gear lever a wheel shape for a reason.

A large US airline used to accompany the gear call with a hand motion by the PF. It's no longer done though.

[FlightDetent]

Guess you're right.

[vilas]

FD
a very good point.

Won't crash neither happen anything dangerous.. Flaps zero at not the proper speed? No problem, the bus is in charge and won't do "much"

Yes! unless it is. Combine windsheer to that and it will happen. In the investigation the ubiquitous human factor will pop up. Bernard Ziegler said "my aircraft is so simple to control it will even prevent bad Pilots from making a mistake" didn't take long to prove him wrong did it?