"Two in the cockpit"-rule?
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I cleared my message before a cry baby or a butt hurt reports me for spreading bad ideas. Happened to me before. But since you guys had time to read my scenario,I would be pleased to see how you could have saved the day. Remember you were in the toilet for potentially a number 2. xD
You are paid to follow the SOP at your outfit. If you don’t like a SOP, you follow it until you get it changed.
If that’s not to your liking, grow a pair, call your chief pilot and tell him or her not only do you disagree with the SOP you will not follow it. Then let us know how that works out for you.
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Dude calm down. For your information, I did talk about it to the management. But things don’t change over night in here. I’m ultimately responsible for the safety so I will do what I have to do and by FOM that’s my right. You wanna be a monkey and follow blindly some counter productive rule who has be proven to be unsafe then be my guest but don’t tell me how to do my job. So far I have a clean record so I guess I’m not doing so bad. And it’s always in agreement with the rest of the crew otherwise I would have been reported. In fact the cabin crews are always grateful as it’s a pain in the @ss for them as it’s interrupting the service in BC. You can’t not imagine how many times they are grateful to me for doing this. It’s a win win situation. 90% of the pilots don’t give a sh@t about that rule cause they know how ridiculous it is. Open your eyes man. We should all be fighting against that rule.
Last edited by pineteam; 14th Jan 2020 at 16:06. Reason: Typo.
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It’s in use at my company after being implemented after the Germanwings crash and I personally have mixed feelings about the policy.
Mental health challenges for pilots are as much taboo now than they were five years ago, in the run up to the horrific Germanwings accident. Whilst some regulators and airlines have developed their support mechanisms for pilots with mental health challenges, many have not.
Having the door opened and closed on more occasions is not ideal but the risk this poses will vary greatly, depending on what type you fly. Pax can’t easily see the flight deck door on the type I fly, so this is far less of a risk than it may be for some others.
Our cabin crew are trained to not initiate conversation on the flight deck unless done so first by the remaining pilot. It seems to work well for managing any distractions.
Mental health challenges for pilots are as much taboo now than they were five years ago, in the run up to the horrific Germanwings accident. Whilst some regulators and airlines have developed their support mechanisms for pilots with mental health challenges, many have not.
Having the door opened and closed on more occasions is not ideal but the risk this poses will vary greatly, depending on what type you fly. Pax can’t easily see the flight deck door on the type I fly, so this is far less of a risk than it may be for some others.
Our cabin crew are trained to not initiate conversation on the flight deck unless done so first by the remaining pilot. It seems to work well for managing any distractions.
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‘pineteam’ Your responsibility is to follow company procedures and not to ignore the ones you don’t like. You are not a professional pilot. If you are so sure of yourself, please let the forum know which company you work for.
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Yeah sure to the guy sharing zero information. You want my real name too? Don’t you have better things to do? Maybe you think the airline I work for is unsafe? Mmmm well zero accident/ Serious incident in more than 25 years... You guys are unbelievable: You have no valuable argument and only know how to be offensive. I’m not perfect but I’m probably more professional than you and definitely a kinder person. Just reading some of your posts say a lot about how trash you can be towards over members.
May I remind you that you are fairly new here. Please show some respects to the community and stop polluting the topic. You wanna talk, you PM me. Thank you.
May I remind you that you are fairly new here. Please show some respects to the community and stop polluting the topic. You wanna talk, you PM me. Thank you.
Last edited by pineteam; 14th Jan 2020 at 18:24. Reason: Sentence added
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The german airlines introduced the 2 person rule after Germanwings, ultimately due to public pressure. A year later they quietly went back to the old procedure. Back then i was working in one of them and talked to the flight safety manager, he told me that the safety case was always against the 2 person rule, but public pressure was so high that they had to implement against their own safety case, which the authority was not happy about.
I believe some Big Airline never introduced it, and my current outfit finally dropped it in the middle of last year. So yes, there is quite a few airlines that do not require the 2 person rule.
As we have recently seen in the Atlas case, even a second pilot in the flightdeck does not prevent one pilot from bringing down the plane if he really wants to, certainly not a flight attendant on a jump seat.
I believe some Big Airline never introduced it, and my current outfit finally dropped it in the middle of last year. So yes, there is quite a few airlines that do not require the 2 person rule.
As we have recently seen in the Atlas case, even a second pilot in the flightdeck does not prevent one pilot from bringing down the plane if he really wants to, certainly not a flight attendant on a jump seat.
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‘pineteam’ Perhaps you hadn’t heard that Germanwings hadn’t had an accident until 24 March 2015? TEM is rather lost on you eh? Can do better than PM you, would you prefer me to ask your FOM to have a chat?
BTW, I first became a member of this forum in 1997, so not ‘new’ here.
BTW, I first became a member of this forum in 1997, so not ‘new’ here.
I'd imagine there are more pressing safety issues to get this worked up about instead of whether a cockpit door is open for 5 seconds or 10 and whether there is an FA in the cockpit or not... Get a grip 
.
.
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You are right Deja Vu and Intrance. Why I am wasting my time arguing about it. Maybe that’s my new hobby. xD
Small Cog, in my opinion, and it’s be proven that adding a FA in the cockpit was not a good TEM resolution. Believe what you want. I’m tired of discussing about it. Good day.
Small Cog, in my opinion, and it’s be proven that adding a FA in the cockpit was not a good TEM resolution. Believe what you want. I’m tired of discussing about it. Good day.
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Useless rule, that was a knee jerk reaction, just like the 1500 hour time in the US following the Colgan crash. If some have it so be it, but I am not surprised it is not a hard SOP.
I fly for a cargo outfit, so we don't really have a choice.
I fly for a cargo outfit, so we don't really have a choice.
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‘pineteam’ Perhaps you hadn’t heard that Germanwings hadn’t had an accident until 24 March 2015? TEM is rather lost on you eh? Can do better than PM you, would you prefer me to ask your FOM to have a chat?
BTW, I first became a member of this forum in 1997, so not ‘new’ here.
BTW, I first became a member of this forum in 1997, so not ‘new’ here.
Flight attendants know what tools are available in the flight deck, and they can hurt to death.
I am of the opinion that if anyone wants to bring down an airliner bad enough, they will succeed. It doesn't matter then if there is an FA in the cockpit or not. However, I also don't really see much of an additional risk of having the cockpit door open a few seconds more for an FA to step inside. If we are what we claim to be, professional pilots, it should not make a difference if there is an FA in the cockpit. However, if we are instead some juvenile flyboys who get distracted by a hot piece of *ss (male or female 
) then I suppose that is a bigger risk than the actual rule itself.
All in all, just follow whatever SOP your company has decided on and focus on bigger issues than this crap.
) then I suppose that is a bigger risk than the actual rule itself.All in all, just follow whatever SOP your company has decided on and focus on bigger issues than this crap
.
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Camera or Not?
Just my two euroCent worth:
In a flightdeck without a cabin camera ( if that is what it is called), I feel it is unsafe without a CA in the flightdeck during breaks.
How am I suppose to check visually the reentering FO?
Not getting out of my seat!
Just saying.
In a flightdeck without a cabin camera ( if that is what it is called), I feel it is unsafe without a CA in the flightdeck during breaks.
How am I suppose to check visually the reentering FO?
Not getting out of my seat!
Just saying.
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Call him? And establish a code/have him identify himself before opening the door.That's how we've been doing it for years.
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Since 9/11 it has always been the rule in the US for two reasons. The first, and most important, is so that the pilot flying doesn't have to get out of his seat in order to open the door. The second is if the pilot flying becomes incapacitated there is someone there immediately aware of it and can also open the door. It has been said that during incapacitation the door can be opened electronically via a code. However the electric lock can be MEL'ed in which case the door can be manually lock which goes back to reason number one.
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I believe EASA rules require in that case the two person rule, dito in case of inop cameras of course, or an inop door lock which requires using the deadbolt on the door (if you have a door equipped with that). But those are edge cases, almost all airlines (with the huge exception of ryanair of course) in europe use camera systems, many of them display the camera pictures in the primary field of view on one of the main screens (lower DU for the 737, SD for the A320 for example). Only those that pay only lip service to safety do use the rather clumsy version with a monitor behind the pilots which indeed lets one question if it is indeed safe to have only one pilot in the flight deck if IDing the one entering by turning around preventing any flight instrument or even window check while checking the monitor.
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Yeah sure to the guy sharing zero information. You want my real name too? Don’t you have better things to do? Maybe you think the airline I work for is unsafe? Mmmm well zero accident/ Serious incident in more than 25 years... You guys are unbelievable: You have no valuable argument and only know how to be offensive. I’m not perfect but I’m probably more professional than you and definitely a kinder person. Just reading some of your posts say a lot about how trash you can be towards over members.
May I remind you that you are fairly new here. Please show some respects to the community and stop polluting the topic. You wanna talk, you PM me. Thank you.
May I remind you that you are fairly new here. Please show some respects to the community and stop polluting the topic. You wanna talk, you PM me. Thank you.
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... You wanna be a monkey and follow blindly some counter productive rule who has be proven to be unsafe then be my guest but don’t tell me how to do my job. So far I have a clean record so I guess I’m not doing so bad. And it’s always in agreement with the rest of the crew otherwise I would have been reported. ... Open your eyes man. ...
Ah, so if everyone is agreeable, SOP can be violated, what a f-up cockpit you run.
The earth is littered with broken bodies and broken airplanes flown by pilots who thought SOP did not apply to them. Pilots who thought they were smarter than the engineers who designed the airplanes, smarter than the training folks who wrote the manuals, and smarter than the regulatory authorities. Pilots who, in your case, had a vote on which SOP will apply to each flight.
Your ‘clean record’ is an accident waiting to happen.
