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A320 Engine failure during SID

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A320 Engine failure during SID

Old 3rd Dec 2019, 08:38
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Question A320 Engine failure during SID

Hello folks,

concerning the headlines: you fly a SID and suddenly an engine fails. Below engine out acc. Alt and above 1000 in a turn.

What´s supposed to happen? My thoughts were:

Select MCT- Stay on SID- apply ECAM-Call atc and do the level off in a good alt.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks!
SW
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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 09:14
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If you are with a good operator, the operator will have had the sums done (either by in-house or contracted tech service ops engineers) and all should be well.

If not, then you might have a problem ...

you fly a SID and suddenly an engine fails. Below engine out acc. Alt and above 1000 in a turn. What´s supposed to happen?

Is the runway/airport surrounded by tiger country terrain ? .. or is the landscape pretty benign with no obstacles at all ?

My thoughts were: Select MCT- Stay on SID- apply ECAM-Call atc and do the level off in a good alt.

Would you not keep takeoff thrust on until you are cleaned up ? If you have gone to climb thrust you should still be climbing reasonably steeply and well above the OEI profile. Maybe still go back to takeoff thrust until you have cleaned up ? After all, that should have been the basis for the sums in the first place.

Main concern (if the operator hasn't done the sums) is whether turn radius and climb is going to put you into the hills or above them.

Moral - one should do the sums beforehand and know what the outcome should be.
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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 13:32
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In a scenario where obstacle clearance is a problem - i.e. 35 ft netto is not guaranteed - after losing 1 when already above 1000 ft (having gotten there with both running), one hopes the attention is raised well before starting up.

I'd be greatly interested if someone could illustrate a factual example, where a simple turn back overhead the field might not suffice. Here's mine:



Engine Fail Proc:
At 1 NM past DER turn right, intercept and follow 240° inbound to ELVEN (there's a convenient VOR to do that easily, not charted on this particular sheet).

Not your best day:
After tkof climbing through 1100 ft towards SUSOP, right in the middle of the fjord - surge, boom, and bang - # 1 has given up. Wind approx 220/48 kt, IMC.
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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 13:46
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Originally Posted by FlightDetent View Post

I'd be greatly interested if someone could illustrate a factual example, where a simple turn back overhead the field might not suffice.
Off the top of my head, KASE, LOWI
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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 14:06
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Glancing at the charts, Aspen looks as if following the EFP would do. Innsbruck (RWY 26) definitely not if you're too far.

Both ENEV and LOWI require specific NAA approval, so the pilot is not at the peril of the operator's homework - once the EFP is not a solution anymore.
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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 14:46
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What clean-up profile is used with MCT or CLB power? Every clean out profile I've seen, on multiple jets, uses takeoff power. If the normal profile doesn't work runway specific engine out profiles are developed.

Our airline had a famous (infamous) example where the crew tried to clean up using CLB power. Descending turn from base to downwind just a couple of knots above stick shaker. They were unaware of the proximity to stick shaker because the minimum speed tape information isn't displayed on Boeing's until the first flap retraction. No flap retraction = no minimum speed tape information. This incident became a company wide, and FAA (?), required training event - engine failure after thrust reduction altitude but before flap retraction. At light weights the plane might be able to accelerate to clean up speed with MCT. At heavy (normal) takeoff weights they won't. The engine failure SOP changed - there is no clean up profile with CLB/MCT. In the event of a takeoff engine failure after thrust reduction but before cleanup - return to takeoff power or TOGA for clean up.

This event links to another training event for arrivals - non precision approaches, single engine, at heavy weights. Scenario was max takeoff weight with uncontrolled fire. That leads to an immediate return using a non precision approach. The standard SOP is configured at the final approach fix. The reality is the plane can't maintain level flight, configured, with an engine out at heavy takeoff weights. At a light weight it might. At what weight does that become possible? That's a decision that needs some Clint Eastwood advice "do you feel luck?" Or you can adjust the single engine non-precision SOP to "no gear down unless you're going down." Step down level offs can literally be a killer.
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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 16:16
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Aspen is a Gotcha because the LINDZ 9 departure has a turn to a 273* heading at 9100 ft. That is a CONDITIONAL waypoint. Meaning do not turn until you reach 9100 ft. If you have lost a Donk, that turn moves away from you and right into a mountain. There are company specific, FAA approved, SIDs which replace the 9100ft with a dme range.
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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 17:08
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Also it’s worth noting that TOGA is always available as mentioned in FCOM 22-20-60-40 ENG out SID above thrust reduction altitude : « Note:If necessary, move the thrust lever of the active engine to the TOGA detent. The Flight Mode Annunciator will display “LVR MCT”, flashing in white, when the aircraft reaches Green Dot speed. »
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Old 4th Dec 2019, 02:46
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There used to be a procedure in the FCOM for Engine Out above two engine acceleration but prior to flap retraction or engine out acceleration.
-advance THR to MCT, Select Speed
-stay on SID
-Complete initial ECAM to engine shutdown
-Manage Speed, retract Flap on schedule (in normal circumstances there should be sufficient performance to climb and accelerate)
- if not accelerating then VS 0, once clean then Open Clb at green Dot.
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Old 4th Dec 2019, 13:47
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion View Post
There used to be a procedure in the FCOM for Engine Out above two engine acceleration but prior to flap retraction or engine out acceleration.
-advance THR to MCT, Select Speed
-stay on SID
-Complete initial ECAM to engine shutdown
-Manage Speed, retract Flap on schedule (in normal circumstances there should be sufficient performance to climb and accelerate)
- if not accelerating then VS 0, once clean then Open Clb at green Dot.
If it was removed I wonder if it was because of the example I mentioned - the plane is too heavy to accelerate for clean up at MCT/CLB.
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