Logbook entry: actual instrument time
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Logbook entry: actual instrument time
Most of my time is in airliners on autopilot although I'm ***lucky*** to fly a 727 in my present job and do quite a lot of hand flying, because our autopilot isn't the greatest on the ILS, we usually hand fly it from glide slope capture. I also hand fly many departures. (We are a part 91 operation VIP and operate from Africa mainly to Europe, Africa, MES and we used to do several flights a year to the USA but this seems to have slowed a bit, we even went to China last year). I am operating with a FAA ATP validated in the country, we do our PCs in Orlando.
I've never been sure what the regulators want to see in the logbook column "Actual Instrument".
How do you guys calculate how much time to write up in this column? I mean, the entire flight is conducted under IFR whether we hand fly it or the autopilot flies it. What is the purpose of this column?
Side note: We never used to log the number of landings as it wasn't a requirement in the old days, then I got a job in Europe in 2000, and they wanted to know how many landings I did for the JAA validation, it was a major mission to go back through all my logbooks and guess how many landings I did.
BTW mods if this is in the wrong section, please move it.
I've never been sure what the regulators want to see in the logbook column "Actual Instrument".
How do you guys calculate how much time to write up in this column? I mean, the entire flight is conducted under IFR whether we hand fly it or the autopilot flies it. What is the purpose of this column?
Side note: We never used to log the number of landings as it wasn't a requirement in the old days, then I got a job in Europe in 2000, and they wanted to know how many landings I did for the JAA validation, it was a major mission to go back through all my logbooks and guess how many landings I did.
BTW mods if this is in the wrong section, please move it.
I only logged the time I was actually hand flying on instruments. So 20 minutes per flight, basically the climb and descent.
My conscience was happy with that. No one was really interested anyway. If you’d had an Instrument Rating for some time and passed your 6 monthly renewals they assumed you could fly on instruments!
Got no idea what the regulations say you can log. I suspect they are more generous?
My conscience was happy with that. No one was really interested anyway. If you’d had an Instrument Rating for some time and passed your 6 monthly renewals they assumed you could fly on instruments!
Got no idea what the regulations say you can log. I suspect they are more generous?
In the UK (pre JAA/EASA etc.) the definition used to be "manipulating the flying controls by sole reference to the instruments" which seemed
fair enough. Autopilot hours didn't count.
fair enough. Autopilot hours didn't count.
There is no way claimed instrument flight time can be audited by the Regulator. That leads to wholesale faking of IMC (in cloud) instrument flying hours in log books. Basically it is left to the honesty of the pilot how he chooses to log instrument flying.
Some log 0.3 hours instrument time (including taxy time)for every flight they do whether CAVOK or not. Some regulators approve any flight requiring an IFR flight plan to be logged as instrument flight. Some log books have a column for Actual and another column for Simulated instrument flight. Simulated meaning practice instrument flying under the hood in a real aircraft. Actual means "in cloud or black night"
In the old days the only instrument flying to be legally logged as such was hand flying only in real IMC. That is the true test of flying skill. Auto pilot instrument flight was never to be logged as that was considered cheating since there is no instrument handling skill needed to monitor the instruments especially while eating your meal
Every Regulator seems to have different rules on logging of instrument flying. At an airline interview make sure to explain the rules under which you logged your instrument flying time since faking of hours is common.
.
Some log 0.3 hours instrument time (including taxy time)for every flight they do whether CAVOK or not. Some regulators approve any flight requiring an IFR flight plan to be logged as instrument flight. Some log books have a column for Actual and another column for Simulated instrument flight. Simulated meaning practice instrument flying under the hood in a real aircraft. Actual means "in cloud or black night"
In the old days the only instrument flying to be legally logged as such was hand flying only in real IMC. That is the true test of flying skill. Auto pilot instrument flight was never to be logged as that was considered cheating since there is no instrument handling skill needed to monitor the instruments especially while eating your meal
Every Regulator seems to have different rules on logging of instrument flying. At an airline interview make sure to explain the rules under which you logged your instrument flying time since faking of hours is common.
.
Last edited by Centaurus; 24th Jan 2019 at 12:28.
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I found the FAR concerning logging of flight time >>> 14 CFR 61.51 - Pilot logbooks.
It doesn't mention autopilot vs hand flying, but operating the aircraft suggests both.
It doesn't mention autopilot vs hand flying, but operating the aircraft suggests both.
(g)Logging instrument time.(1) A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions.(2) An authorized instructor may log instrument time when conducting instrument flight instruction in actual instrument flight conditions.(3) For the purposes of logging instrument time to meet the recent instrument experience requirements of § 61.57(c) of this part, the following information must be recorded in the person's logbook -(i) The location and type of each instrument approach accomplished; and(ii) The name of the safety pilot, if required.
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Under EASA rules instrument time doesn't matter, except during initial training and to get a rating. Thereafter, only time spent under instrument flight rules matter, that has to be logged, instrument time doesn't. It can be logged if one wishes to do so, in the remarks column. Under operational conditions in the EASA flight log, column 9, one has to log night and/or IFR time.
AMC1 FCL.050 (a) (5) Operational conditions, namely if the operation takes place at night, or is conducted under instrument flight rules.
AMC1 FCL.050 (i) (7) column 9: enter flight time undertaken at night or under instrument flight rules if applicable.
AMC1 FCL.050 (a) (5) Operational conditions, namely if the operation takes place at night, or is conducted under instrument flight rules.
AMC1 FCL.050 (i) (7) column 9: enter flight time undertaken at night or under instrument flight rules if applicable.
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I've always assumed (now there's a dangerous thought) that it was indeed Time spent under Instrument Flight rules. Thus I logged airborne time under instrument, as opposed to the brakes off/on times.
Have not logged instrument flight time since I got my ATPL. All my flying is on an IFR FPL. Not once has a comment been made, through 35 years, several renewals, type ratings, JAA, EASA and whatever preceded that. Useless information.
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The instrument column (under the FAA) is for time spent instrument conditions. You can fly IFR all day and not log a single minute of instrument flight. Whether or not the AP is engaged does not matter.
