LHR 160 till 4dme
Folks,
One airline from SE Asia is not happy about config. changes on "short final" so flies with Flap 30, gear down all the way from about 3000 ft, rather defeating the noise minimization aspect of the procedure.
Tootle pip!!
One airline from SE Asia is not happy about config. changes on "short final" so flies with Flap 30, gear down all the way from about 3000 ft, rather defeating the noise minimization aspect of the procedure.
Tootle pip!!
One airline from SE Asia is not happy about config. changes on "short final" so flies with Flap 30, gear down all the way from about 3000 ft,
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One airline from SE Asia is not happy about config. changes on "short final"
There was a reason why "short final" was in inverted commas.
It was/is not a matter of the airline accepting, but requiring, the aircraft be in the landing configuration, checks complete, at approx. 10nm/3000 agl.
Dan in the previous post "gets it".
Tootle pip!!
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Nah they can definitely see what speed you have selected on the MCP. Hence why flying an approach with managed speed into Heathrow (as long as S and F speeds comply with the speed control given) confuses the hell out of them and often they’ll ask you to confirm your speed.
Nah they can definitely see what speed you have selected on the MCP. Hence why flying an approach with managed speed into Heathrow (as long as S and F speeds comply with the speed control given) confuses the hell out of them and often they’ll ask you to confirm your speed.
I can't find anything in the Mode S/EHS spec that has provision for MCP selected speed. While selected altitude has obvious benefits in providing potential early warning of a possible level bust, I'm struggling to see similar benefits for an approach controller who already has access to your IAS and, as noted above, will likely ask you what you're doing if you appear to be ignoring a speed instruction.
Can anybody provide a definitive reference to any recent changes to the Mode S/EHS spec that make this provision?
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I’m not at LL, but Mode S/ADS-B functionality is the same for everybody, I can confirm we(ATCOs) can’t see your selected speed.
However, if you’re doing something different than preceding or succeeding traffic (even slightly different), it does stand out. So if they ask you to maintain 160, and you keep 165, that difference will be noticeable after a short while, if the others are doing 160 exactly.
However, if you’re doing something different than preceding or succeeding traffic (even slightly different), it does stand out. So if they ask you to maintain 160, and you keep 165, that difference will be noticeable after a short while, if the others are doing 160 exactly.
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I’m not at LL, but Mode S/ADS-B functionality is the same for everybody, I can confirm we(ATCOs) can’t see your selected speed.
However, if you’re doing something different than preceding or succeeding traffic (even slightly different), it does stand out. So if they ask you to maintain 160, and you keep 165, that difference will be noticeable after a short while, if the others are doing 160 exactly.
However, if you’re doing something different than preceding or succeeding traffic (even slightly different), it does stand out. So if they ask you to maintain 160, and you keep 165, that difference will be noticeable after a short while, if the others are doing 160 exactly.
And this is where the problem is, ATC expect us to fly exact speed of eg 160, but aircraft limitations due eg landing weight prohibit this to be done unless the big anchor is dropped down causing a lot of noise which no one wants.
Better would be a dialog with airlines, so that types unable to fly 160 at MLW are planned for at the appropriate speed they can fly without dropping the gear, eg 165...
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In other airports that request 160 I'd usually ask if 16x is ok and usually they're happy.
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Heathrow ATC can only see actual IAS, not selected.
Heathrow AIP entry gives usual speeds to expect, including 160 to 4DME. If this is not acceptable, then as requested in the AIP please inform Director on first contact and we will accommodate a different speed on final.
Heathrow AIP entry gives usual speeds to expect, including 160 to 4DME. If this is not acceptable, then as requested in the AIP please inform Director on first contact and we will accommodate a different speed on final.