Aircraft loading
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: Czech Republic
Aircraft loading
Hello,
I work as load controller until I finish my ATPL. I'm the guy who makes a loading instructions and load sheets.
We have procedures how to load an aircraft but there is still plenty of things we can do differently and I would like to hear an opinion from those who fly. I'm not looking for one real truth, I just want to hear opinions from the other side.
How do you like your plane to be loaded. We aim for 2/3 of MAC (1/3 from AFT) due to fuel consumption but do you care where the trim is if it is within limits? Just how you feel it, when it is more comfy, more fun or whatever. The biggest plane I have ever flown was Piper Seneca and it was always empty, just fuel, me and instructor or Cessna 172 full or just with me so I do not know. Sure, there is difference and you can feel it but it is not much big deal. How about bigger birds? I always think about pilots when I have A340 with underload few hundred kilos and trim so much forward that it almost touches the limit.
How do you like coop with load controller when the aircraft is overeight?
Just for you to understand my situation. I prepare loading instructions for ramp agent and I work with some estimated figures of deadload, passangers and fuel. Those numbers are expected and not real. I can see real but I can't use them.
So I have Bombardier CR900 and it is full of PAX, nothing I can do with them. But I have 80 bags (even though there are like 40 of them checked in) and I have block fuel 7000 kgs for 50 mins flight. While trip fuel is 2500 kgs. And it is overweight by 200 kilos.
I can't send loading instructions. I have to somehow make it works and everything has to be fine to send it and I expect offloading of bags.
Would you feel offended as PIC when I would inform you that weight is like that and if you take block fuel more than 6500 we have to offload bags? I have never had problem with that. None ever complained. Some pilots even call me and ask about EZFW and how much I expect to change it because they want to know how much fuel they can take. We have to report EZFW to some airports automaticaly and every time but I was told not to do that and just offload bags. Well ok, it is simplier for me to put them to offload list with reason "weight" and do not care. Problem is that when I got the flight I see "historical" fuel. Which is extremely high number. Before sending loading instructions I should recieve "provisional" block fuel from flight planning or OPS which is more real and few minutes before LS I recieve final fuel from flight crew. This is the real real amount of fuel in aircraft. But historical fuel is 7000 kg (why? I have no idea), provisional is 4500 and block is almost same. But some companies do not send provisional. So I would be stuck with another 2500 kgs of fuel until few minutes till departure. With offloaded bags and when it changes to real amount I will call ramp agent to open the aircraft and load rest of bags and make a delay or I will let the plane leave with huge underload but 10 bags on ground? That is dumb.
All I need is to know as soon as possible how much fuel they are going to take. And I don't even need the exact number. Well enough for me is "it will be under..." or "it won't be more than"
Is it bad to ask? I asked few captains and they were like "sure you want to take it all with you" but as I said we should not tell them. They take how much fuel they want and we are not supposed to tell them...because how would you feel when someone told you how much fuel you can take. I would say "that is fine, I can go with this" or "sorry, I need that fuel".
I work as load controller until I finish my ATPL. I'm the guy who makes a loading instructions and load sheets.
We have procedures how to load an aircraft but there is still plenty of things we can do differently and I would like to hear an opinion from those who fly. I'm not looking for one real truth, I just want to hear opinions from the other side.
How do you like your plane to be loaded. We aim for 2/3 of MAC (1/3 from AFT) due to fuel consumption but do you care where the trim is if it is within limits? Just how you feel it, when it is more comfy, more fun or whatever. The biggest plane I have ever flown was Piper Seneca and it was always empty, just fuel, me and instructor or Cessna 172 full or just with me so I do not know. Sure, there is difference and you can feel it but it is not much big deal. How about bigger birds? I always think about pilots when I have A340 with underload few hundred kilos and trim so much forward that it almost touches the limit.
How do you like coop with load controller when the aircraft is overeight?
Just for you to understand my situation. I prepare loading instructions for ramp agent and I work with some estimated figures of deadload, passangers and fuel. Those numbers are expected and not real. I can see real but I can't use them.
So I have Bombardier CR900 and it is full of PAX, nothing I can do with them. But I have 80 bags (even though there are like 40 of them checked in) and I have block fuel 7000 kgs for 50 mins flight. While trip fuel is 2500 kgs. And it is overweight by 200 kilos.
I can't send loading instructions. I have to somehow make it works and everything has to be fine to send it and I expect offloading of bags.
Would you feel offended as PIC when I would inform you that weight is like that and if you take block fuel more than 6500 we have to offload bags? I have never had problem with that. None ever complained. Some pilots even call me and ask about EZFW and how much I expect to change it because they want to know how much fuel they can take. We have to report EZFW to some airports automaticaly and every time but I was told not to do that and just offload bags. Well ok, it is simplier for me to put them to offload list with reason "weight" and do not care. Problem is that when I got the flight I see "historical" fuel. Which is extremely high number. Before sending loading instructions I should recieve "provisional" block fuel from flight planning or OPS which is more real and few minutes before LS I recieve final fuel from flight crew. This is the real real amount of fuel in aircraft. But historical fuel is 7000 kg (why? I have no idea), provisional is 4500 and block is almost same. But some companies do not send provisional. So I would be stuck with another 2500 kgs of fuel until few minutes till departure. With offloaded bags and when it changes to real amount I will call ramp agent to open the aircraft and load rest of bags and make a delay or I will let the plane leave with huge underload but 10 bags on ground? That is dumb.
All I need is to know as soon as possible how much fuel they are going to take. And I don't even need the exact number. Well enough for me is "it will be under..." or "it won't be more than"
Is it bad to ask? I asked few captains and they were like "sure you want to take it all with you" but as I said we should not tell them. They take how much fuel they want and we are not supposed to tell them...because how would you feel when someone told you how much fuel you can take. I would say "that is fine, I can go with this" or "sorry, I need that fuel".
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 111
From: Somewhere over the rainbow
Interesting to see how it’s done. Thanks for sharing it.
As a pilot on the A320 Family, I like the aircraft to be tail heavy for better fuel consumption. As long as it’s in the green band and the loadsheet has been done correctly, I’m happy.
We do a lot of tankering and sometimes due to the heavy payload, we can not tanker as much as we would like to. So, we like to have the latest ZFW as soon as possible to give the final fuel figure. It’s even more important when weather is problematic and we have little extra. I get annoyed when the loadsheet comes and realised we could have taken 2 tonnes extra fuel and saved considerable amount of $.
As a pilot on the A320 Family, I like the aircraft to be tail heavy for better fuel consumption. As long as it’s in the green band and the loadsheet has been done correctly, I’m happy.
We do a lot of tankering and sometimes due to the heavy payload, we can not tanker as much as we would like to. So, we like to have the latest ZFW as soon as possible to give the final fuel figure. It’s even more important when weather is problematic and we have little extra. I get annoyed when the loadsheet comes and realised we could have taken 2 tonnes extra fuel and saved considerable amount of $.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,247
Likes: 203
From: Here and there
Lighten up. He follows procedures but there is room within the procedures to do things differently. He is asking for a pilot’s perspective on loading, that is all.
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 881
Likes: 68
From: UK
if it goes pete tong and you find the a/c overweight or out of trim then its your job as load controller to decide what or who gets moved or taken off or you spot a mistake
back in the ''old days'' one could erm, adjust the number of bags and/or the taxi fuel with the skippers agreement, suggestion or his say so but of course today that would be let us say rather frowned upon
same as when the skip used to say put another 2 tonnes of fuel on for ''mum''
likewise we never wanted to leave any staff standby pax behind if we could help it
back in the ''old days'' one could erm, adjust the number of bags and/or the taxi fuel with the skippers agreement, suggestion or his say so but of course today that would be let us say rather frowned upon
same as when the skip used to say put another 2 tonnes of fuel on for ''mum''
likewise we never wanted to leave any staff standby pax behind if we could help it
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 111
From: Somewhere over the rainbow
it will be on an A321 loaded with a CG fully forward compare to an A321 with a CG fully backward?
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,733
Likes: 2,106
From: Reading, UK
