Climb On Standard

[speedtrend]

In China, I have often, if not always, been instructed by ATC to “climb to xxx meters on standard” right after departure. I take it that I can set my altimeter setting to standard even before passing the transition altitude. Is this correct?

[AerocatS2A]

Any chance they are saying “non standard”, as in a non standard level (non hemispherical)?

[FlightDetent]

AFAIK:

"Climb (to) Flight Level 80"
"Climb (to) 8 thousand meters standard"

are both correct and (only) proper phraseologies - for the same thing

In the metric world, the descriptor "standard" is affixed with the same meaning as "Flight Level" that we know (and like to omit) so well.

It is not an instruction to change altimeters, neither does it affect your company approved technique for doing so.

[Dupre]

Initially i thought they were saying "non standard", but no they are saying "on standard".

However they never use the term "flight level"... So i take it as meaning to climb to the cleared level and change the altimeter as normal at transition.

E.g. "climb 8400m on standard" means climb to flight level 8400m.

Of course there are also instances when they will clear you to a flight level below transition on arrival. Tianjin does this regularly, by transmitting "descend 3000m on standard"

[FlightDetent]

Because FLIGHT LEVEL is supposed to be used for levels in hecto-feet. Not for the metric ones.

[pineteam]

Originally Posted by speedtrend

I take it that I can set my altimeter setting to standard even before passing the transition altitude. Is this correct?

No, by the books you should not: Only Set standard when you pass the TA.

[piratepete]

Flight Detent: You might want to check your ICAO/Jeppesen standard phraseology.The correct expression is "Flight Level eight thousand four hundred meters".........Has been this way for a very long time.

[hikoushi]

3000 meters is the transition level, yes? It is very similar to in the USA “climb and maintain FL180”. That level and above are flown “on standard”. “maintain 3000 meters on standard” is no different than “maintain FL180”. If he had cleared you lower usually he would have said “descend to 900 meters on QNH 1011” or something similar.

[LimaFoxTango]

Originally Posted by pineteam

No, by the books you should not: Only Set standard when you pass the TA.

Not quite. You are allowed to set standard once cleared to a flight level provided you are not asked to stop at or report passing an altitude.

[FlightDetent]

Originally Posted by piratepete

... check your ICAO/Jeppesen standard phraseology.

Warning appreciated!

Originally Posted by Doc 4444 PANS-ATM

Note.— If the level of an aircraft is reported in relation to standard pressure 1 013.2 hPa, the words “FLIGHT LEVEL” precede the level figures. If the level of the aircraft is reported in relation to QNH/QFE, the figures are followed by the word “METRES” or “FEET”, as appropriate.

It seems neither of us feel the guidance is adequate. You learned to add METERS to a flight level call, me to drop FLIGHT LEVEL and add STANDARD instead.

So, which one is it? Both incorrect?

I checked the 4444 Phraseologies chapter as well as Doc 9432 and couldn't find any metric examples, only imperial

[pineteam]

Originally Posted by LimaFoxTango

Not quite. You are allowed to set standard once cleared to a flight level provided you are not asked to stop at or report passing an altitude.

I think you are confusing with the descend. Our SOPM and FCOM clearly state that Standard will be set at earliest « at transition altitude »and for the descend, QNH will be set when « clear to an altitude & approaching the TL ».
Besides, you don’t know if you will be asked to stop climb for any reasons.
Saying that I’m personally not to fussy about it. In my homebase, the TA is 9000 feet, and we are sometimes clear to FL110. If we don’t set standard early enough on a very light A319 we do sometimes get alt* before the TA.

Originally Posted by FlightDetent

So, which one is it? Both incorrect?

Like you, I often hear « Climb to 3900M on standard » or « Climb to flight level 3900M ». The word « to » is often intentionally ommited to avoid confusion when they use « on standard ».
I have no reference but I guess it’s just easier and less confusing to say « On standard » when it’s preceded by Meters.

[speedtrend]

Thanks all for the input

[FlightDetent]

pinteam, he's not. In the "UK based" world of thought, they set STD immediately once clearance to a FL is received. It is not without a merit.

Personally I had been originally trained the way you explain, and it feels more natural to me. But the habit seems to be the only difference. For the last 3 years using their method, I had not been stopped in climb yet. In the descent, requiring re-set of the datum? Twice or thrice for sure.

(Just do not ask the boss if he wants you to set STD on the ground, when initial clearance is straight up to a FL )

[pineteam]

Hi FlightDetent,

Ok thanks, I did not know in the UK it works like this. My bad LimaFoxTango. But the FCOM from Airbus does not say anything about setting standard earlier than the TA. Only for the descend setting the QNH earlier than the TL is allowed; Thus my assumption it was a general rule. Again me I could not care less if the PF wants to set standard earlier. Lol.

[piratepete]

Flight Detent: The first sentence of your post explains it.Anytime your altitude is based upon standard setting of 29.92 inches/1013.2 hpa then it is expressed as a "flight level" irrespective of what follows is metric or imperial.You can find the explanation covering this in the Jeppesen Manuals.As is the case a lot of the time and all over the world, in practice many pilots/controllers dont always use correct phraseology over the radio, very common in China airspace where they largely omit the "flight level " part....Pete.

[act700]

because they don't want you to be scared once levelling off...I don't want to fly at a Fright Lever 😛