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The database of RWs coordinates

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Old 13th Apr 2018, 07:17
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Are you familiar with the expression "a solution looking for a problem" ?
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 07:49
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Google earth is far from accurate, but its close enough for general use.
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 17:01
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Originally Posted by Avtrician
Google earth is far from accurate, but its close enough for general use.
I can not agree. Here are some examples:
London, a military base near London, Sydney, but here's Brisbane - the error is great. Why is it?

239398,2434,"EGLL",12001,148,"ASP",1,0,"09R",51.4649,-0.486772,75,90,1013,"27L",51.465,-0.434075,77,270,
239491,2486,"EGUB",4782,100,"ASP",0,1,"06",51.6149,-1.10233,197,56,,"24",51.6222,-1.08483,226,236,
233266,27145,"YSSY",8300,148,"ASP",1,0,"07",-33.9437,151.164,16,74,,"25",-33.9375,151.19,20,254,324
233170,26901,"YBBN",5577,98,"ASP",1,0,"14",-27.3578,153.124,11,146.7,197,"32",-27.3706,153.133,9,326.7,197
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 20:06
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I'm sure I'm not alone in being confused by your series of posts, both in this thread and in various accident threads (MH370, Katmandu Dash-8, Syrian An-26, Iran ATR, etc).

Originally Posted by Patanom
I can not agree. Here are some examples:
London, a military base near London, Sydney, but here's Brisbane - the error is great. Why is it?

239398,2434,"EGLL",12001,148,"ASP",1,0,"09R",51.4649,-0.486772,75,90,1013,"27L",51.465,-0.434075,77,270,
239491,2486,"EGUB",4782,100,"ASP",0,1,"06",51.6149,-1.10233,197,56,,"24",51.6222,-1.08483,226,236,
233266,27145,"YSSY",8300,148,"ASP",1,0,"07",-33.9437,151.164,16,74,,"25",-33.9375,151.19,20,254,324
233170,26901,"YBBN",5577,98,"ASP",1,0,"14",-27.3578,153.124,11,146.7,197,"32",-27.3706,153.133,9,326.7,197
Could you explain

a) what you are trying to show with the above data
b) where that data is from
c) what reference source you are comparing it against
d) how it supports your assertion that Google Earth is inaccurate

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but I'd really like to understand what point you are trying to make.
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 23:37
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The MH370 disaster probably occurred because of the jet stream. It has nothing to do with datums.
The database is taken from the site Open data @ OurAirports
Brisbane https://www.airservicesaustralia.com...nt/dah/dah.pdf section 18, Australia. The result is the same (Brisbane).
a) so you can easily check - just copy the coordinates eg 51.4649, -0.486772 into the google map window (put a space after the comma, otherwise there will be an error format)
b) see above
с) I compare the datum WGS-84 with local (ED50, PUK42 etc)
d) I did not say this, quite the opposite.
All troubles in the absence of visibility, but if the pilot stubbornly wants to land the aircraft only on the GPS, he must know what he can expect.
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 23:57
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The thresholds don't alignment with Google maps. I will try to check Europe Datum 1950.
Don't rely on Google Maps as your benchmark.
When the coordinates was re-calculated from local datums to WGS84, may be coordinate Z (altitude) was omited ?
Very unlikely - the basic method of conversion uses the Molodensky parameters that includes the X.Y & Z parameters. I did most of NZ & the SW Pacific islands in the early 90's and used the Bursa-Wolfe 7 parameter method where available.
The accuracy is still dependent on the source data. The last time I used some data from the Russian AIP, I found Google Earth & The World Aeronautical Database (online) far more accurate...
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 07:14
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Originally Posted by Patanom
The MH370 disaster probably occurred because of the jet stream. It has nothing to do with datums.
The database is taken from the site Open data @ OurAirports
Brisbane https://www.airservicesaustralia.com...nt/dah/dah.pdf section 18, Australia. The result is the same (Brisbane).
a) so you can easily check - just copy the coordinates eg 51.4649, -0.486772 into the google map window (put a space after the comma, otherwise there will be an error format)
b) see above
с) I compare the datum WGS-84 with local (ED50, PUK42 etc)
d) I did not say this, quite the opposite.
All troubles in the absence of visibility, but if the pilot stubbornly wants to land the aircraft only on the GPS, he must know what he can expect.
OK, so you have demonstrated that a crowd-sourced set of airfield/runway data isn't particularly accurate. That's hardly a surprise.

Do you have any evidence that stubborn pilots are actually using this data for precision approaches?

I'm struggling to see how this is a real-world (npi) problem.
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