The over use of autobrakes
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 438
Likes: 13
From: Australia
have seldom read such a load of rubbish. If this reflects current teaching about the design, function and use of automatic braking then everyone needs to go back to school and study how it works in reality
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 283
Likes: 1
From: somewhere hot and sticky
Any chance you know where this habit comes from? Was it once recommended by Airbus?
Ta!
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 720
Likes: 1
From: N5109.2W10.5
Was it once recommended by Airbus?
See page 18.
https://www.cockpitseeker.com/wp-con...psWithALAR.pdf
"Adhering to the following operational guidelines
ensures an optimum braking during the landing roll:
• Arming ground spoilers;
• Arming autobrake with the most appropriate
mode for prevailing conditions (e.g., short
runway, low visibility, contaminated runway);
• Selecting thrust reversers as soon as possible
with maximum reverse thrust (this increases
safety on dry and wet runway, and is mandatory
on runway contaminated with standing water,
slush, snow or ice);"
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 4,692
Likes: 1,281
From: Australia
:
Was it once recommended by Airbus?
Affirm
Was it once recommended by Airbus?
Affirm
Monitoring airspeed indication and returning
reverse levers to the reverse idle position at the
published indicated airspeed or when airspeed
fluctuations occur, whichever come first;
Nothing about going to max reverse and then immediately going to idle reverse.
Dog Tired
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,686
Likes: 2
From: uk
Let's get onto the over-use of wings and elevators as well. Blatant, in my opinion.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 511
Likes: 1
From: Great Southern Land
Personally I think a lot of this thread is a beat up about nothing.
As a professional I would expect that you would assess what is required on the day at a particular airfield, whether you use autobrakes or not, idle reverse or full reverse. On the assessment side of things your decision may come from having operated into an airfield you are very familiar with, or jump into the performance information and work out what you need for airfields you are not that familiar with.
If the airline sops are to use autobrakes then arm them, just after touch down and you feel no need for them, then cancel them!
To me that is airmanship or is it personship ....... but that is another topic!
As a professional I would expect that you would assess what is required on the day at a particular airfield, whether you use autobrakes or not, idle reverse or full reverse. On the assessment side of things your decision may come from having operated into an airfield you are very familiar with, or jump into the performance information and work out what you need for airfields you are not that familiar with.
If the airline sops are to use autobrakes then arm them, just after touch down and you feel no need for them, then cancel them!
To me that is airmanship or is it personship ....... but that is another topic!
Last edited by Offchocks; 8th March 2018 at 22:12.
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 374
Likes: 28
From: Country Victoria, Australia
The current take up rate on my fleet is about half, with the bias heavily toward runways that have it in their own noise policy. I don't have the slightest problem with it on long, dry runways. The issue is thoughtless application of any policy, no matter what it relates to.
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 111
From: Somewhere over the rainbow
Personally I think a lot of this thread is a beat up about nothing.
As a professional I would expect that you would assess what is required on the day at a particular airfield, whether you use autobrakes or not, idle reverse or full reverse. On the assessment side of things your decision may come from having operated into an airfield you are very familiar with, or jump into the performance information and work out what you need for airfields you are not that familiar with.
If the airline sops are to use autobrakes then arm them, just after touch down and you feel no need for them, then cancel them!
To me that is airmanship or is it personship ....... but that is another topic!
As a professional I would expect that you would assess what is required on the day at a particular airfield, whether you use autobrakes or not, idle reverse or full reverse. On the assessment side of things your decision may come from having operated into an airfield you are very familiar with, or jump into the performance information and work out what you need for airfields you are not that familiar with.
If the airline sops are to use autobrakes then arm them, just after touch down and you feel no need for them, then cancel them!
To me that is airmanship or is it personship ....... but that is another topic!
In my home base, I almost never use autobrake as I need to vacate the runway at the far end, and with 3400M runway and with headwind, reverse idle only and no brakes application will bring down the aircraft to taxi speed just before the exit. Works like a charm.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 216
Likes: 1
From: United States
In many airlines engines are leased or on some form of guaranteed maintenance program. Brakes are simply purchased.
So the engine people want idle reverse [and aggressive derates, but that is another subject], and the brake people are very happy to sell brakes. Send a few "technical experts" to advise the airline customers, combined with a thinning out of engineering expertise in flight operations departments in the name of cost savings, and presto -- stupid and rigid SOPs.
And more overruns on wet/slippery runways.
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 4
From: last time I looked I was still here.
I really dont understand this quite common "idle reverse" policy...
There are many airports in EU where the noise lobby have influence, and the SOP is idle reverse unless you have a safety issue. Someone told them the auto brakes can do the same thing and TR's do not cause less stopping only more noise.
That, plus some airline SOP's/philosophy that brake maintenance is cheaper than engine maintenance, and don't forget fuel burn, is what causes some guys to stop thinking when it is required.
There are many airports in EU where the noise lobby have influence, and the SOP is idle reverse unless you have a safety issue. Someone told them the auto brakes can do the same thing and TR's do not cause less stopping only more noise.
That, plus some airline SOP's/philosophy that brake maintenance is cheaper than engine maintenance, and don't forget fuel burn, is what causes some guys to stop thinking when it is required.
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 351
Likes: 0
From: Nirvana..HAHA..just kidding but,if you can tell me where it is!
Blacksheep,..go easy on your flock!
But worth remembering,..autobrake is slave to reverse thrust,whilst manual braking has its own mind!......
But worth remembering,..autobrake is slave to reverse thrust,whilst manual braking has its own mind!......
Last edited by Yaw String; 12th March 2018 at 20:05.
