Your airline policy on flying with A/T off

[Tu.114]

On the DH8: compulsory, as none installed. Adjusting the power levers as required becomes second nature after a while on the type, as it should be. The same can be said for retrimming the aircraft about all 3 axis after each and any power change unfortunately. Flying raw data is allowed above certain weather limits and encouraged by many captains.

On the F70/100: use of A/T was standard but not compulsory. The dual channel A/T was releasable under MEL (0/2 required), so practising flying without it once in a while was not the worst of ideas. Attitudes to switching it off varied among captains though.

[Minderbinder]

I have never flown a AP off and A/THR on Approach on either Airbus or Boeing aircraft. The companies I worked for insisted on manual flight, manual thrust and generally encouraged raw data flying. During my first approach into LHR my instructor on the B737 classic had me fly raw data for training purposes. The SID was also flown manually with both AP and A/THR off as it was not an RNAV Overlay departure. The Instructor was nearing retirement and fondly remembered the days when there were no sims, doing engine failures on the B727 during traffic patterns.
Times have changed I suppose.

[Capn Bloggs]

Company ( and Boeing) recommends against mix 'n match on automation.

Depends on the type! The 737 is not the only Boeing aeroplane and others shouldn't be judged by it's apparently appalling pitch/power couple.

[tom775257]

UK airline, A320. Essentially do whatever we want regarding levels of automation or not, just use a bit of common sense.

[WrldWide]

ME Airline 777, company policy is A/T on always unless dictated by QRH. IMHO, very bad policy. In fact no manual flight above 10k agl. Also poor policy. I know, I know, ridiculous. But...what to do?

[vilas]

I have never flown a AP off and A/THR on Approach on either Airbus

Airbus FBW ATHR is used even with AP off. Since it maintains 1g stick free there is no appreciable Thrust/weight pitch up. Even in dual hydraulic failure like G+y ATHR is recommended. Speed stable aircraft may be problematic with auto thrust and manual flying.

[pineteam]

I don't undestand what's the problem of flying with AP off and A/THR ON on Airbus for raw data since the A/THR will be in speed mode. Do I miss something here?

Originally Posted by vilas

Speed stable aircraft may be problematic with auto thrust and manual flying.

Hi Vilas, could you explain please? Thanks.

[Bus Driver Man]

Mandatory A/THR on is the policy here.
This results in pilots losing their flying skills at this big Middle Eastern company.

[divinehover]

Originally Posted by agg_karan

We have 4 levels of automation.
Level one is hand flown / raw data/a-thr off.
Level two is handflown / a-thr / FD
level three is A/p / A-Thr / basic modes.
Level four is LNAV/VNAV/AP/ATHR

Pilots must be aware that consistent use and reliance on automation levels 3 and 4 throughout the flight regime will degrade basic flying skills. Therefore, pilots must continue to maintain proficiency by using all levels of automation on a regular basis, keeping in view the following:

§ Workload
§ Weather conditions
§ Fatigue factor
§ Traffic
§ Experience level of Flight Crew
§ In accordance with company policy and procedure.

Nice clear breakdown of the different phases. Good policy to encourage appropriate behavior. I like it.

[vilas]

Pineteam
I am also saying the same thing. There is no problem flying airbus AP off, even FD off and ATHR on. In conventional aircraft pitch up due to thrust variations is pronounced and requires retrimming while Airbus maintains flight path and auto trims. so no issue really. With only AP off ATHR will remain in whatever mode it is but with both FDs off ATHR will automatically go to speed mode.

[AFA]

A/P off & A/THR off approaches no problem at this U.K A340 operator.
Pilots choice.

[Max Angle]

Mandatory A/THR on is the policy here.
This results in pilots losing their flying skills at this big Middle Eastern company.

Exactly the same policy and resultant problem here at a large UK based airline.

[Bus Driver Man]

Another problem is that cadets who start their flying career with this policy will never fly with manual thrust.

[Denti]

All combinations allowed here with an A320/A330 operator. Most use manual thrust with manual flight, some do the odd autothrust on approach to keep that trained as well. FD off take off/landing is encouraged as well, if using proper procedures and keeping in mind workload, experience, weather, traffic and so on.

[underfire]

Denti...manual thrust on manual flight.

Other than manual flight (assumed)

When does SOP suggest AT?

AP/FD/AT condition approach combinations?

A/P off & A/THR off approaches no problem at this U.K A340 operator.
Pilots choice.

That would certainly depend on the decorum.

[Dupre]

A320 operator here, ATHR on/off is not mandated in our books, so it's up to the pilot.

Raw data approach is allowed, with certain weather conditions (max 15kt x/w, cloud base above 1500`)

We regularly fly with AP off, FD off, Athr ON, on non precision approaches once visual and close to MDA.