A-320 Anti Ice use
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2017
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From: FLYING
A-320 Anti Ice use
Airbus FCOM´s FCTM and QRH recently deleted all references directly stating anti ice use - for the cruise segment -
No doubt we can be at cruise and find icing conditions with need for anti ice use.
Anyone knows why they decided to delete the mentioned info?
No doubt we can be at cruise and find icing conditions with need for anti ice use.
Anyone knows why they decided to delete the mentioned info?
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,115
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From: England
WING7, I do not know about the specific Airbus position, but in common with some modern aircraft, experience may indicate that continuous ‘anti icing’ during cruise may not be justified.
Much of this depends on how the aircraft system has been certificated. Anti icing is normally associated with continuous use, more likely at low altitudes, whereas in-flight intermittent ‘de-icing’ could be used as required, either where ice accumulation has been identified, or if there is temporary risk of encountering higher categories of icing during the cruise; in which case the system's use becomes anti-icing; crew awareness / decision.
Ask the manufacturer to comment on the certification standard and recommended practices for the system.
I recall that there has been a significant rethinking (amendment) of the icing certification standards. This may change definitions and system use.
Also, even if the new regulations are not retrospective, Airbus may have adopted the best best-practices in operation or has related previous certification to the higher standard; indicating that an older aircraft would meet a new standard, even if formal documentation does not state that.
Much of this depends on how the aircraft system has been certificated. Anti icing is normally associated with continuous use, more likely at low altitudes, whereas in-flight intermittent ‘de-icing’ could be used as required, either where ice accumulation has been identified, or if there is temporary risk of encountering higher categories of icing during the cruise; in which case the system's use becomes anti-icing; crew awareness / decision.
Ask the manufacturer to comment on the certification standard and recommended practices for the system.
I recall that there has been a significant rethinking (amendment) of the icing certification standards. This may change definitions and system use.
Also, even if the new regulations are not retrospective, Airbus may have adopted the best best-practices in operation or has related previous certification to the higher standard; indicating that an older aircraft would meet a new standard, even if formal documentation does not state that.
Only half a speed-brake
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,459
Likes: 136
From: Commuting not home
It is a bit of a mess. There are E-AI paragraphs in SOP CLB and DES/preparation, and a new LIM part to define what constitutes icing conditions. However, there is no CRZ anti-ice use section.
Previously, which is the OP's concern if I am not mistaken, the guideliness for cruise were:
- in cloud and SAT below -40: not required
- in cloud in the vicinity of CBs, even if SAT below -40: required.
When I tried to deduce the present CRZ rules from the new CLB and DES/prepartion paragraphs, I came to opposing results. Too lazy to post pictures of the text at the moment.
It seems the CRZ section is missing (wrongly), and whoever worded the CLB paragraph got me confused. Unless, for cruise now they want us to keep the E.A-I ON in cloud regardless of SAT - because that's what the CLB section wording implies.
PRO-NOR-SOP-13 "A: After Take-Off" -> ENG ANTI-ICE pb-sw
PRO-NOR-SOP-16 "A: Descent preparation" -> ENG ANTI-ICE pb-sw
LIM-ICE_RAIN "A: DEFINITION OF ICING CONDITIONS"
We should have a look into the AFM, actually.
Previously, which is the OP's concern if I am not mistaken, the guideliness for cruise were:
- in cloud and SAT below -40: not required
- in cloud in the vicinity of CBs, even if SAT below -40: required.
When I tried to deduce the present CRZ rules from the new CLB and DES/prepartion paragraphs, I came to opposing results. Too lazy to post pictures of the text at the moment.
It seems the CRZ section is missing (wrongly), and whoever worded the CLB paragraph got me confused. Unless, for cruise now they want us to keep the E.A-I ON in cloud regardless of SAT - because that's what the CLB section wording implies.
PRO-NOR-SOP-13 "A: After Take-Off" -> ENG ANTI-ICE pb-sw
PRO-NOR-SOP-16 "A: Descent preparation" -> ENG ANTI-ICE pb-sw
LIM-ICE_RAIN "A: DEFINITION OF ICING CONDITIONS"
We should have a look into the AFM, actually.
Only half a speed-brake
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,459
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From: Commuting not home
AFM for CFM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 224
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From: FL390
Hm, strange.
Usually Airbus takes some time to refine changes, i figured out it is about 1 year. (like starter limitations, residual EGT in manual start lol)
Our SOPs have the "old way" use of anti ice, but in FCOM is unclear.
Usually Airbus takes some time to refine changes, i figured out it is about 1 year. (like starter limitations, residual EGT in manual start lol)
Our SOPs have the "old way" use of anti ice, but in FCOM is unclear.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 367
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From: Tropics
I don't have access to the old manuals now, but I vaguely recall that it's written somewhere in the FCTM. Something along the lines of engine anti-ice should be on when operating in icing conditions or near CBs. Does anyone still have that reference?
Separately, the new FCTM does have a lot more write-ups about icing and how it can occur - Ice crystal section. In the region where I operate, very often even when the OAT is -50 degrees Celsius we see ice forming on the wipers after a while. Maybe the new procedure is to cater for possibilities like this.
Separately, the new FCTM does have a lot more write-ups about icing and how it can occur - Ice crystal section. In the region where I operate, very often even when the OAT is -50 degrees Celsius we see ice forming on the wipers after a while. Maybe the new procedure is to cater for possibilities like this.
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 78
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From: Middle Europe
from FCOM-PRO-NOR-SOP-Descent Preparation
ENG ANTI-ICE pb-sw.....................................AS RQRD
Engine anti-ice must be set to ON before and during descent, event if the SAT is below -40 °C (-40 °F).
Engine anti-ice must be set to ON before and during descent, event if the SAT is below -40 °C (-40 °F).
