FMS Flight Plan - STAR Input
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FMS Flight Plan - STAR Input
I am curious to hear what the philosophy different airlines use during descent preparation. The ATIS should provide the expected runway and approach type however the STAR will only be an educated guess (and ATC Clearance issued well into the descent).
Entering a STAR into an active FPLAN will provide good predictions, however the risk of deviating from the cleared route (via the STAR) will increase.
So when does your airline prefer the STAR to be entered?
1. In anticipation as part of descent preparation,
2. After ATC clearance is issued
3. Entered in the second plan for prediction purposes (and activated after ATC clearance issued)
4. Other
Thanks
Entering a STAR into an active FPLAN will provide good predictions, however the risk of deviating from the cleared route (via the STAR) will increase.
So when does your airline prefer the STAR to be entered?
1. In anticipation as part of descent preparation,
2. After ATC clearance is issued
3. Entered in the second plan for prediction purposes (and activated after ATC clearance issued)
4. Other
Thanks
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We already enter STAR during preflight preparation of the FMS.
I think it makes no difference if you leave it open.
No method will be foolproof. There has to sit someone in the cockpit who is thinking. E.g: If you enter no STAR you will also deviate from the routing if you do not change it timely.
I think it makes no difference if you leave it open.
No method will be foolproof. There has to sit someone in the cockpit who is thinking. E.g: If you enter no STAR you will also deviate from the routing if you do not change it timely.
Most guys put it in during setup on the ground,those that don't put it in during cruise. Either way it doesn't matter as both are before ATC assign it anyway. So just be careful of what you are cleared for and keep the other guy in the loop.
Most times the flight plans my company submit have a star routing in them anyway. So if the RT fails you'd follow the plan etc etc.....
Most times the flight plans my company submit have a star routing in them anyway. So if the RT fails you'd follow the plan etc etc.....
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So if the RT fails you'd follow the plan etc etc.....
having said that, after studying the TAF, we also put the STAR we expect to fly in the box at preflight.
We (Long-Haul) put the planned STAR in pre-flight, or early in the cruise.
Pro - Might be useful on our kit in the unlikely event you have a double FMC failure and end up having to use "alternate navigation"
Con- Reality (ATC) and the plan ( Flight Plan) not tying up.
Pro - Might be useful on our kit in the unlikely event you have a double FMC failure and end up having to use "alternate navigation"
Con- Reality (ATC) and the plan ( Flight Plan) not tying up.
Many airports will have a chart showing which STAR to expect according to your arrival direction and normally there aren't too many different possibilities. I enter the expected STAR into the FMS according to the flight plan, a possible second option can go into the secondary flight plan.
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One good way to reduce error by flying the wrong STAR or one you were not cleared for is to start your approach briefing with the item "clearance limit is..."
This gives both pilots a chance to confirm if a STAR was received or not, and if it's the one inserted in the FMS.ä
If you are approaching your clearance limit (last point om the ATC fpl before destination) and no STAR received, it prompts you to ask the controller for clarification....
A long time ago, for fuel planning purposes, our flight plans were calculated with "shortest SID longest STAR". Entering a "likely" STAR preflight or during cruise also gives you the opportunity to assess the impact on your fuel/flight time.
This gives both pilots a chance to confirm if a STAR was received or not, and if it's the one inserted in the FMS.ä
If you are approaching your clearance limit (last point om the ATC fpl before destination) and no STAR received, it prompts you to ask the controller for clarification....
A long time ago, for fuel planning purposes, our flight plans were calculated with "shortest SID longest STAR". Entering a "likely" STAR preflight or during cruise also gives you the opportunity to assess the impact on your fuel/flight time.
We enter the STAR as defined on the flight plan. If it looks as though the opposite runway will be in use, it is usually a simple matter to find the same STAR designation but for the other runway.
As an aside, I think it is high time that runway in use was promulgated on METARS and VOLMETs. In the case of the latter; we don't really need to hear three cloud levels do we? Why not give just the lowest two and leave space for runway in use?
As an aside, I think it is high time that runway in use was promulgated on METARS and VOLMETs. In the case of the latter; we don't really need to hear three cloud levels do we? Why not give just the lowest two and leave space for runway in use?
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It's easier to delete a STAR and enter a Direct To leg or Heading, rather than entering a STAR at the last minute. In many places the STAR will also give you a good idea of expected altitude restrictions, making VNAV predictions easier. Also, in the event of an FMC failure, you will have it in the CDU as a backup.
If the weather is such that you can't readily predict the runway, plan for the closest one (shortest ground track). If it turns out to be a different one, you have more time to change and brief.
If the weather is such that you can't readily predict the runway, plan for the closest one (shortest ground track). If it turns out to be a different one, you have more time to change and brief.
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Some modern flight plan providers have runway selections made for the crew based on forecast model for weather and other inputs. These such plans provide a ground distance, which, after route is inserted in FMC, allows an accurate crosscheck for input errors in the inserted route. In this case STARs should be selected as part of this procedure of cross checking on ground pre-departure.
