B727-200 Autopilot
At Continental we had B727-100's with -7 and -9 engines, gross weight was 160,000 pounds, we had 727-200's with the -9 engine with gross weights at 172,500 0r 175,500, the latter were ex Braniff aircraft.
We also had 727-200's with the -15 engine and a MGTOW of 198000 pounds.
Air Mike had some ex Alaska airframes with the -17 engine, not sure of their gross weight limits but I know it was higher still and they had auxiliary tanks.
We also had 727-200's with the -15 engine and a MGTOW of 198000 pounds.
Air Mike had some ex Alaska airframes with the -17 engine, not sure of their gross weight limits but I know it was higher still and they had auxiliary tanks.
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727-200 Autospoiler
Thanks for your contributions conpilot!
Please can you explain more details as to how the Autospoilers messed what would otherwise have been a good landing? Does it introduce a skip followed by a bang!? How do tbey save a bad landing? Do you get pronounced pitch up with their deployment which kinda kills the sink during flare with excess speed?
How do you handle her flare with a 5-10kt tail wind? (Say medium length runway)
Does the 727 ever reward an inadvertent greaser??
)
Cheers
Please can you explain more details as to how the Autospoilers messed what would otherwise have been a good landing? Does it introduce a skip followed by a bang!? How do tbey save a bad landing? Do you get pronounced pitch up with their deployment which kinda kills the sink during flare with excess speed?
How do you handle her flare with a 5-10kt tail wind? (Say medium length runway)
Does the 727 ever reward an inadvertent greaser??
)Cheers
Our -200 had auto-brakes and spoilers, but that was it as far as automation went. To be honest I cannot remember if we had altitude capture on the autopilot or not. I really don't think so. No auto-throttles of course.
I had a love/hate relationship with the auto-spoilers on the -200. Sometimes it would save a good landing and other times destroy a great landing. I never got the number of grease on landings I had in the -100s in the -200s, but in my defense I didn't have near as much time in the -200 that I did in the -100.
I had a love/hate relationship with the auto-spoilers on the -200. Sometimes it would save a good landing and other times destroy a great landing. I never got the number of grease on landings I had in the -100s in the -200s, but in my defense I didn't have near as much time in the -200 that I did in the -100.
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incestuous Sim Autoland
Kudos for the smart cockpit abberation!
Why would you say auto land Sim.work on 727 felt like kissing your sister? On the cheeks or...?
Did it feel like flirting with danger??
Why would you say auto land Sim.work on 727 felt like kissing your sister? On the cheeks or...?
Did it feel like flirting with danger??
Notice the mis-print error in the 'Smart' Cockpit download.
The statement under Stab Out of Trim about the left half of the light for A system & the right half for B system should be moved up under Elevator Low Pressure Light.
Our -200 sim, which I would guess was based faithfully on one of grounded27's tail numbers, was full up CAT 3A A/P capable.....but except for the value of practicing some insidious A/P, A/T malfunctions in very low viz.....doing an autoland in a sim was like kissing your sister.
The statement under Stab Out of Trim about the left half of the light for A system & the right half for B system should be moved up under Elevator Low Pressure Light.
Our -200 sim, which I would guess was based faithfully on one of grounded27's tail numbers, was full up CAT 3A A/P capable.....but except for the value of practicing some insidious A/P, A/T malfunctions in very low viz.....doing an autoland in a sim was like kissing your sister.
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Your 727-100 Sim
Hi
Is your Sim operational and FAA approved? Do you use it for training? Please inbox me for details. About to fp a 727-TR
Thanks
Is your Sim operational and FAA approved? Do you use it for training? Please inbox me for details. About to fp a 727-TR
Thanks
OK456
Now that I think back, I seem to remember that on N2777 (or N27 ?), the -100 we got from the FAA, had an auto-land system installed for testing purposes. It was removed before we got the aircraft.
At least that was what we were told by someone from the FAA after we got the 727. Any truth to that rumor that you are aware of?
Now that I think back, I seem to remember that on N2777 (or N27 ?), the -100 we got from the FAA, had an auto-land system installed for testing purposes. It was removed before we got the aircraft.
At least that was what we were told by someone from the FAA after we got the 727. Any truth to that rumor that you are aware of?
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Increased Gross weight 722
I have seen a 96 tonne MTOW 727-200 in sone advert so that figure of 109k lbs tallies.
I don't recall seeing anything over 198K unless it was a Boeing built freighter like the Fed Ex model -200F. As recall there was a different structure that increased the empty weight significantly on those aircraft. Do not recall the MTOGW but 208, sounds a little heavy?
The Singapore -212ADV was a 198,000 airplane and that I'm pretty sure of as we bought one from AK and did a corporate conversion on it.
The Singapore -212ADV was a 198,000 airplane and that I'm pretty sure of as we bought one from AK and did a corporate conversion on it.
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SIA 727-212 ADV
Hi Spooky
Any idea where those ex SIA 727-200 Adv stable resode at the moment? I know someone looking for a 727F.
Also where do they do engine modifications gor the -15 and -17 tp produce that rocket thrust mentioned earlier in this thread,? Any leads will be appreciated.
I am also lookinh for an old N727-200 Adv AFM.Any ex Eastern,American,Continental,PanAm,TWA or similar league 727 experienced crew with the B727-200 AFM vol1 and Vol 2 who can to donate will be gratefully received. I will pay the shipping charges. kindly inbox me.
Cheers
Any idea where those ex SIA 727-200 Adv stable resode at the moment? I know someone looking for a 727F.
Also where do they do engine modifications gor the -15 and -17 tp produce that rocket thrust mentioned earlier in this thread,? Any leads will be appreciated.
I am also lookinh for an old N727-200 Adv AFM.Any ex Eastern,American,Continental,PanAm,TWA or similar league 727 experienced crew with the B727-200 AFM vol1 and Vol 2 who can to donate will be gratefully received. I will pay the shipping charges.
kindly inbox me.Cheers
Back in the 80's AK was buying both used and factory new 727's. My only experience was the purchase of one of the former 727-212Avd airplanes they had bought from Singapore. Very low time and exceptionally well equipped. These were -17 powered and had a MGTOW or TAXI, can't recall which of 198,000. I believe SIA only had six of these in service.
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Autoland pedentics
OK465
I agree only to some extent.
I have done Autoland Cat 3 during A320 type rating training.
Yes you do not touch or fondle much till after touch down when engaging thrust reversers. The procedure is not a handling one but a SOP none the less and calls for intense monitoring and Go Around mindedness. The Pilot monitoring is especially busy with the checklist and standard call outs as well as monitoring the trajectory and yhe other pilot "flying".The approach and landing doesnt end till ypu park at the gate. The last real Cat3 approach I experienced in Zurich early morning July 2014.O wad a passrnger that day on A330.Taxing itself seemed a slow laborious challenge due tp limited visibility. Even as we were
Turning to our gate it was difficult tp see the plane parked adjacently. Getting a systems degradation or engine failure below 1000 ft requires being on top of things to make the right decision as low as 50 ft)in the flare!). It is a different ball game to conventional flying, more stressful but highly satisfactory as everything works on the money and you have no tricky crosswind close to autopilot limits for Cat3 which is not much...not to mention a slippery runway.Even Cat3 Autolands can make you sweat..albeit a different kind of sweat. I wonder what limitations were in place for the Cat3a autoland for the three holer? I expect it had have had autobrakes. For Cat2 how well did she hold the ILS? Does she tend to wonder a bit before nailing the ILS?
I agree only to some extent.
I have done Autoland Cat 3 during A320 type rating training.
Yes you do not touch or fondle much till after touch down when engaging thrust reversers. The procedure is not a handling one but a SOP none the less and calls for intense monitoring and Go Around mindedness. The Pilot monitoring is especially busy with the checklist and standard call outs as well as monitoring the trajectory and yhe other pilot "flying".The approach and landing doesnt end till ypu park at the gate. The last real Cat3 approach I experienced in Zurich early morning July 2014.O wad a passrnger that day on A330.Taxing itself seemed a slow laborious challenge due tp limited visibility. Even as we were
Turning to our gate it was difficult tp see the plane parked adjacently. Getting a systems degradation or engine failure below 1000 ft requires being on top of things to make the right decision as low as 50 ft)in the flare!). It is a different ball game to conventional flying, more stressful but highly satisfactory as everything works on the money and you have no tricky crosswind close to autopilot limits for Cat3 which is not much...not to mention a slippery runway.Even Cat3 Autolands can make you sweat..albeit a different kind of sweat. I wonder what limitations were in place for the Cat3a autoland for the three holer? I expect it had have had autobrakes. For Cat2 how well did she hold the ILS? Does she tend to wonder a bit before nailing the ILS?
re: CAT 3a autoland and sissy
.....and calls for intense monitoring and Go Around mindedness.
The procedure is not a handling one....
The point being that unless you're inputting system malfunctions, the simulator will not screw up an autoland....not that CAT 3 procedural training is not important and of value (including SMGCS and ground ops).
The sim is basically a 'closed loop' not associated with the fear and randomness existing in the real world flying business.
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VC10tail, There were several of these 727-212's on the market over that last 12 months. Roush (sp?) racing had a beautiful one that had been converted by Valsan and believe made into a freighter as well so they could move their race cars. If you google them you can probably find out if it's still around.
Last edited by Spooky 2; 17th Jan 2016 at 19:17.
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Autoland vs Others being equal
With due respect OK465, why do you think Special Cat2 and Cat 3 Crew qualification is required?
I agree on one thing.."hands off" your sister but be prepared to grab her when you see "Cat2/3 invalid"!
I agree on one thing.."hands off" your sister but be prepared to grab her when you see "Cat2/3 invalid"!
No different than any approach in the WX....CAT 1, 2 or 3 or GPS or VOR or BC LOC, or (gasp) NDB, etc.
I would assume neither is 'kissing your sister'.
The point being that unless you're inputting system malfunctions, the simulator will not screw up an autoland....not that CAT 3 procedural training is not important and of value (including SMGCS and ground ops).
The sim is basically a 'closed loop' not associated with the fear and randomness existing in the real world flying business.
I would assume neither is 'kissing your sister'.
The point being that unless you're inputting system malfunctions, the simulator will not screw up an autoland....not that CAT 3 procedural training is not important and of value (including SMGCS and ground ops).
The sim is basically a 'closed loop' not associated with the fear and randomness existing in the real world flying business.
