Boeing, Airbus at odds over black boxes that eject
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Boeing, Airbus at odds over black boxes that eject
Boeing, Airbus at odds over black boxes that eject
WASHINGTON (AP) — The world's two largest commercial aircraft manufacturers are at odds over equipping airliners with black boxes that eject in the event of a crash, making them easier to find........
read on in the link
WASHINGTON (AP) — The world's two largest commercial aircraft manufacturers are at odds over equipping airliners with black boxes that eject in the event of a crash, making them easier to find........
read on in the link
Sounds little more than a PR stunt by Airbus.
No carrier is going to specify ejectable FDRs/CVRs on its fleet unless the regulators make them mandatory. And that isn't going to happen.
No carrier is going to specify ejectable FDRs/CVRs on its fleet unless the regulators make them mandatory. And that isn't going to happen.
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I think an ejectable and floatable locator should be mandatory. Located in the fin, possibly, ejected either by hydraulic or air pressure stored in an accumulator, (one way valve, in the event of system failure), and of sufficient force to clear the tail plane if the ejection occurs with the aircraft inverted. Triggers could be shock above a certain pre determined value and on immediate contact with water.
Awaiting to be shot down by the engineering fraternity!
Awaiting to be shot down by the engineering fraternity!
Awaiting to be shot down by the engineering fraternity!
Such a system could be developed. For a price. The unintended ejection 'risk' could be mitigated by proper design and location of the capsule (pod, whatever) to make it no more than an expensive nuisance. Placing such a device on what is essentially the exterior of the aircraft is going to require sealed hull penetrations as well as immunity to lightning and static discharge. But these problems have been solved with other equipment (antennas) and, given enough money, could be solved here.
Maintenance will be an issue. I'm assuming the ejection operation requirement will define some minimum reliability level. Maximum tolerable level of unwanted ejections plus minimum levels of failure to operate. Its likely that the mechanism will require some periodic check, which will cost the airlines some money.
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Not a bad idea, but ...
Like anything else may the day come when the classic boxes become history, ... or at least secondary.
Increasingly more and more airframes are outfitted with full (and very fast) Internet connection available to all passengers for a "nominal" fee.
These connection are close to common place on intercontinental flights.
Why can real-time data not be transmitted using the same system?
If a passenger can afford to sign up on a flight by flight or contract basis, one would think the air carriers could as well.
Heck the could make it a simple condition of a business agreement with the provider.
What bandwidth is required for flight and voice recordings.
Not much I venture.
I have streamed HD video on board and tested connection speed onboard and the results are pretty good.
The first objection is probably that Internet is not always 100% reliable.
That would be true, however, most interruptions can be corrected in a fraction of a second. Second, till proven reliable leave the boxes in place.
Increasingly more and more airframes are outfitted with full (and very fast) Internet connection available to all passengers for a "nominal" fee.
These connection are close to common place on intercontinental flights.
Why can real-time data not be transmitted using the same system?
If a passenger can afford to sign up on a flight by flight or contract basis, one would think the air carriers could as well.
Heck the could make it a simple condition of a business agreement with the provider.
What bandwidth is required for flight and voice recordings.
Not much I venture.
I have streamed HD video on board and tested connection speed onboard and the results are pretty good.
The first objection is probably that Internet is not always 100% reliable.
That would be true, however, most interruptions can be corrected in a fraction of a second. Second, till proven reliable leave the boxes in place.
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I wonder when the last design change to CVRs and FDRs was implemented. You would hope that, given the critical nature of the information on these devices in terms of accident investigation, that there would be a good bit of money spent on R&D for them, yet they still get picked out of rubble after days or weeks of searching...
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It is interesting seeing philosophy majors telling engineers how to do their jobs, and how easy they are.
After ejecting a "black box" remember to make sure it'll make it to the surface and remain easily locatable for a reasonable period. And having located it, where's the plane?
After ejecting a "black box" remember to make sure it'll make it to the surface and remain easily locatable for a reasonable period. And having located it, where's the plane?
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"Journalists world"
Before you are going to conclusions, please take time to see all presentations and all discussions from NTSB Forum: Emerging Flight Data & Locator Technology which was at NTSB on 7OCT2014 (link).
It is funny as usual that journalists take only one piece of all day long discussion and they build his own world.
It is funny as usual that journalists take only one piece of all day long discussion and they build his own world.
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Redfox has it, peter as well...from what I remember, the Airbus product is much more of an EPIRB locator that ejects, not the entire FDR system...
Trust the press to get it right...
Trust the press to get it right...
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The Lockheed P-3C Orions have had the airplane locator beacon system for years, I first saw them in 1986. Admittedly, it's only the 243.0 and 121.5 homing signals that are transmitted, but it sure beats the current locating system, as in MH370!
There are 6 sensors located in strategic parts of the airframe, like wingtips, nose, tail and wing centre section, any one of which will trigger the release of the device if 'smashed', or simply released by a switch in the flight deck.
The device is aerodynamically shaped, and will 'drift' down to the surface when released, and of course, it will float (low in the water, so as not to drift too fast)
The device is spring-loaded in place in the vertical stab (RHS), and released by a mechanical latch which is battery powered.
All this is designed to find the airplane, nothing more!
It's designed to be located immediately via satelite, before it drifts to far!
And, I've never heard of one accidently being released.
There are 6 sensors located in strategic parts of the airframe, like wingtips, nose, tail and wing centre section, any one of which will trigger the release of the device if 'smashed', or simply released by a switch in the flight deck.
The device is aerodynamically shaped, and will 'drift' down to the surface when released, and of course, it will float (low in the water, so as not to drift too fast)
The device is spring-loaded in place in the vertical stab (RHS), and released by a mechanical latch which is battery powered.
All this is designed to find the airplane, nothing more!
It's designed to be located immediately via satelite, before it drifts to far!
And, I've never heard of one accidently being released.
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As EW73 points out, these have been around for decades in maritime patrol aircraft (including the P8 variant of the Boeing 737).
"deployable ELT" or "deployable flight incident recorder" are the keywords you want to Google, and you will find information on some models that have a memory module that is in sync with the FDR.
"deployable ELT" or "deployable flight incident recorder" are the keywords you want to Google, and you will find information on some models that have a memory module that is in sync with the FDR.
