Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Tech Log
Reload this Page >

Ils Terrain Clearance

Wikiposts
Search
Tech Log The very best in practical technical discussion on the web

Ils Terrain Clearance

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 29th May 2002, 09:51
  #1 (permalink)  
Vcl
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Ils Terrain Clearance

Could anyone tell me what terrain clearance is afforded on an ILS approach typically for a 3.0 degree slope.I have looked everywhere in the Jepps and cant find a answer.
Thanks in advance.
Vcl is offline  
Old 29th May 2002, 15:37
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Bothell WA
Posts: 2,809
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
See United States Standard for Terminal Instrument Procedures (TERPS)

http://www.mmac.jccbi.gov/afs/afs420/420di.htm
TR4A is offline  
Old 29th May 2002, 18:37
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: West Mids
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Straight out of the Oxford Air Law syllabus:

On leaving the enroute phase Minimum Obstacle Clearance (MOC) 300m

Inital Approach Fix (IAF) set QNH - MOC 300m

Intermediate Fix (IF) (QFE advised) MOC 300 down to 150m

Final Approach Fix (FAF) (optimum 5nms - maximum 10nms) where specified the MOC is 75m (this is for a non precision approach!)

The spiel for a precision approach is:

"The lowest altitude (OCA) or height above the elevation of the relevant runway threshold (OCH), at which a missed approach must be initiated to ensure compliance with the appropriate obstacle clearance criteria"

And it was just starting to make sense!

I'm just a dumb ATPL student struggling to get to grips with Air Law, perhaps someone with real experience at the sharp end could give a better answer!

Cheers

TBL
The Boy Lard is offline  
Old 29th May 2002, 20:11
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The standard answer is....300 feet (USA). The glidepath angle is adjusted accordingly to provide the required clearance. "Duckunder" maneuvers are NOT recommended.

Speaking of the Instrument Landing System, can anyone here mention where, when and by whom the system was devised?
Hint: a very well known gentleman, who later on, did a "not too bright" maneuver with an Electra.
411A is offline  
Old 31st May 2002, 23:59
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Grobelling through the murk to the sunshine above.
Age: 60
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The clearance can't be that simple. How can it be 300' when DH can be 200' even on a Cat I system?
Pub User is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2002, 07:15
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
'Tis a sliding scale down to minimums...I think.
411A is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2002, 08:47
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: KEGE
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
In 1996 the FAA changed the obstacle clearance criteria for the ILS approach. After years of field studies they found the lateral clearance for a localizer was excessive, while the vertical obstruction clearance for the electronic glideslope was much too narrow. The new criteria apply to ILS IAPs that have been brought online or revised since 1996. The obstacle criteria is similar to the criteria used for the multitudinous MLS approaches that we have available in the United States.

Lateral Clearances
Not that straight forward, you may want to sketch this. There are three cross-sectional areas: one has 0 gradient, the next has a 4:1 gradient, and the last has a 7:1 gradient. These expand, as does the ILS, the farther from the transmitter one travels. The problem is they don’t expand at the same degree. So the sketching part (okay, remember this is supposed to be fun). At 200 feet from the threshold the 0 gradient clearance plane is 800 feet wide, the next is the 4:1 plane and that is 300 feet on either side on the 0 plane. The third plane (7:1) is also 300 ft wide. (Great - don’t get cocky.) At 5 miles from the threshold the 0 gradient plane is 2974 ft wide, the 4:1 plane is 2459 feet wide on either side, and the 7:1 plan is 1628 ft on the outside of the 4:1 plane. Connect the points and you have your profile view of the ILS – I bet that could have been explained better.

Vertical Clearance
This is the tough one, remember this one increased. At 200 feet from the threshold 122 ft of clearance, at 5 miles 755 ft.... the buzz word here is connect the dots, so if you do that you’ll have your gradient (and you can apply to the FBI). Now that’s within the localizer primary area which is the 0 gradient plane and also the 4:1 slope. I think you have all the data points to build a conceptual model.

Thanks to Wally Roberts for the technical info, I alone am responsible for obfuscating the data to the point of uselessness.
'%MAC' is offline  
Old 11th Jun 2002, 15:26
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Australasia
Posts: 362
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Unhappy

Folks,

Noting that the above quote is for TERPS and thus not necessarily the same for ICAO PANS OPS designed approaches.

I seem to remember a thread herein where a Captain Phil Simon of UAL offered up about 25 pages of differences between the FAA and the rest of the world.

Be warned....
4dogs is offline  
Old 11th Jun 2002, 16:33
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: KEGE
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Now wait just a second, are you actually implying that aviation, the most international of endeavors, is being conducted differently in various parts of the world. Come now, different standards and procedures could only lead to confusion. Certainly this couldn't be the case.
'%MAC' is offline  
Old 11th Jun 2002, 17:33
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Perish the thought...
411A is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.