Airbus OXY requirements for smoke/fumes
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Airbus OXY requirements for smoke/fumes
Airbus doesn't state any minimum Crew Oxygen quantity for flight crew members.
Is it suppose to be the same amount required under the FCOM limitation chapter?
In case of flight without cabin pressurization (FCOM special operations), for flight at or below 10000ft, no minimum crew oxygen is required (JAR OPS 1.770, JAR OPS?!?!) for breathing purposes, what about in case of smoke/fumes scenario requiring to don the mask?
Is it suppose to be the same amount required under the FCOM limitation chapter?
In case of flight without cabin pressurization (FCOM special operations), for flight at or below 10000ft, no minimum crew oxygen is required (JAR OPS 1.770, JAR OPS?!?!) for breathing purposes, what about in case of smoke/fumes scenario requiring to don the mask?
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I think you are confused about the difference between emergency o2 and Supplemental 02.
You can expect 110 mins of supp o2,ask you r maintenace,he should be able to provide you a table about the 02 pressure vs supp 02.
Dont worry you wont be the first one
You can expect 110 mins of supp o2,ask you r maintenace,he should be able to provide you a table about the 02 pressure vs supp 02.
Dont worry you wont be the first one
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SMOKE/FUMES/AVNCS SMOKE is a LAND ASAP (RED) procedure, so you're not going to be flying past somewhere to land. Granted, minimum dispatch quantity might not be long enough for an ETOPS flight, but the REMOVAL OF SMOKE/FUMES procedure can also be done at 10000' and most accidents have already demonstrated the whole scenario is over relatively quickly.
In case of flight without cabin pressurization (FCOM special operations), for flight at or below 10000ft, no minimum crew oxygen is required (JAR OPS 1.770, JAR OPS?!?!) for breathing purposes, what about in case of smoke/fumes scenario requiring to don the mask?
OXYCREW may be a credible last resort.
The mask can supply either 100% oxygen or a mixture of oxygen and cabin air. Obviously with smoke, 100% oxygen would be used which would reduce the time available.
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Limitation chapter gives you the minimum. Current procedure for smoke/fumes is if the smoke source is not located or cannot be isolated and extinguished landing must be done in 15 minutes and from 10000ft it wouldn't take much time. Nothing prevents you from applying smoke removal procedure on the way down.
Limitation chapter gives you the minimum. Current procedure for smoke/fumes is if the smoke source is not located or cannot be isolated and extinguished landing must be done in 15 minutes and from 10000ft it wouldn't take much time. Nothing prevents you from applying smoke removal procedure on the way down.
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So guys, the point is:
will you consider yourself legal to accept an airplane with 0 psi Oxycrew for an an unpressurized flight at or below 10.000ft knowing that the immediate action an emergency procedure (smoke/fumes/avionic smoke)requires you to use oxygen? (opening the window is not an alternative since it s part of a subsequent procedure: the smoke removal).
will you consider yourself legal to accept an airplane with 0 psi Oxycrew for an an unpressurized flight at or below 10.000ft knowing that the immediate action an emergency procedure (smoke/fumes/avionic smoke)requires you to use oxygen? (opening the window is not an alternative since it s part of a subsequent procedure: the smoke removal).
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Darn Good Question!!
At/below 10k Ft., the O2 may not be necessary to prevent hypoxia, but it may still be needed for smoke protection. I'd think that common sense says that 'cracking a side window' below 10k Ft. is not the best or most complete answer. Stuff can happen, even at low altitude. Even for a ferry flight at/below 10k Ft., why should it be necessary to fly without O2 available for the crew?
Which brings to mind... the long-range ETOPS certs. issued today... Loss of pressure can and does happen. Do ETOPS certs. include those extended times while flying at 10k Ft. or less? While the crew may have far more O2 time available than do the pax (candle canisters), I wonder if it is enough to reach terra firma from over-water, if necessary. If there is already smoke, perhaps the regulators just assume that everything will burn, long before reaching land, - so why bother. Please forgive that snark; I honestly do NOT know what the ETOPS granters consider for O2 needs. Does anyone? We understand fuel, single-engine stability and navigation to the nearest 'suitable' tarmac, but what do the ETOPS regs say about on-board functions necessary to get us there? I get the minimum power thing; galleys OFF, most lights OFF, many other functions OFF, to enable flying and with necessary power to the flight deck and instruments. What if there is smoke that won't identify itself enough to address? Perhaps it has never happened - and I'm just blowing smoke! I do not know the numbers, a heck yes, at some point there is a statistical cut-off, beyond which the designer and planner do not have to go. This generation - and the prior generation of general service, transport aircraft are so good and so reliable, that maybe this stuff is statistical balderdash. I do not know. Do you?
If it matters, I darn sure not worried, do not lose any sleep over it and will continue to fly when and where necessary - and without regard for route, ETOPS or naught. It works, guys and gals, and you get it right 99.999% of the time
. Thanks!
Which brings to mind... the long-range ETOPS certs. issued today... Loss of pressure can and does happen. Do ETOPS certs. include those extended times while flying at 10k Ft. or less? While the crew may have far more O2 time available than do the pax (candle canisters), I wonder if it is enough to reach terra firma from over-water, if necessary. If there is already smoke, perhaps the regulators just assume that everything will burn, long before reaching land, - so why bother. Please forgive that snark; I honestly do NOT know what the ETOPS granters consider for O2 needs. Does anyone? We understand fuel, single-engine stability and navigation to the nearest 'suitable' tarmac, but what do the ETOPS regs say about on-board functions necessary to get us there? I get the minimum power thing; galleys OFF, most lights OFF, many other functions OFF, to enable flying and with necessary power to the flight deck and instruments. What if there is smoke that won't identify itself enough to address? Perhaps it has never happened - and I'm just blowing smoke! I do not know the numbers, a heck yes, at some point there is a statistical cut-off, beyond which the designer and planner do not have to go. This generation - and the prior generation of general service, transport aircraft are so good and so reliable, that maybe this stuff is statistical balderdash. I do not know. Do you?
If it matters, I darn sure not worried, do not lose any sleep over it and will continue to fly when and where necessary - and without regard for route, ETOPS or naught. It works, guys and gals, and you get it right 99.999% of the time. Thanks!
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I'm not saying anything, but Airbus says (for the fixed cockpit oxygen system):
"MINIMUM BOTTLE PRESSURE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT :
‐ Preflight checks
‐ The use of oxygen, when only one flight crewmember is in the cockpit
‐ Unusable quantity (to ensure that the regulator functions with minimum pressure)
‐ Normal system leakage
‐ and Protection after loss of cabin pressure, with mask regulator on NORMAL (diluted oxygen):
‐ During an emergency descent : For all cockpit members for 13 min
‐ During cruise at FL 100 : For 2 flight crewmembers for 107 min.
or
Protection in case of smoke, with 100 % oxygen : For all cockpit members for 15 min at a cabin altitude of 8 000 ft.
Note: The above times are based on the use of a sealed mask, but may be shorter if the flight crewmember has a beard."
"MINIMUM BOTTLE PRESSURE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT :
‐ Preflight checks
‐ The use of oxygen, when only one flight crewmember is in the cockpit
‐ Unusable quantity (to ensure that the regulator functions with minimum pressure)
‐ Normal system leakage
‐ and Protection after loss of cabin pressure, with mask regulator on NORMAL (diluted oxygen):
‐ During an emergency descent : For all cockpit members for 13 min
‐ During cruise at FL 100 : For 2 flight crewmembers for 107 min.
or
Protection in case of smoke, with 100 % oxygen : For all cockpit members for 15 min at a cabin altitude of 8 000 ft.
Note: The above times are based on the use of a sealed mask, but may be shorter if the flight crewmember has a beard."
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It appears your question started on a wrong assumption. As Lancer has stated correctly there is a requirement of minimum O2 at 10000ft. and below. So all discussion is futile.
It appears your question started on a wrong assumption. As Lancer has stated correctly there is a requirement of minimum O2 at 10000ft. and below. So all discussion is futile.
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Note: The above times are based on the use of a sealed mask, but may be shorter if the flight crewmember has a beard."
Discussion wasnt futile, i learned something
