Approach procedure not available in FMS
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 64
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From: São Paulo, Brazil
Approach procedure not available in FMS
Hello everyone.
Could you clarify me about this issue?
KMDW Rnav (RNP) Y rwy 22L not available in the current FMS database even though it was available for selection on the displays. Following aircraft reported the same problem. The Rnav (RNP) Y Rwy 22L was the approach in use at that time.
Aircraft: G550
Database: Blue Disc 11 2014
Thanks in advance.
Could you clarify me about this issue?
KMDW Rnav (RNP) Y rwy 22L not available in the current FMS database even though it was available for selection on the displays. Following aircraft reported the same problem. The Rnav (RNP) Y Rwy 22L was the approach in use at that time.
Aircraft: G550
Database: Blue Disc 11 2014
Thanks in advance.
Joined: Aug 2010
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From: Worldwide
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 30
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From: PA
wow, I remember having some issues with the DTA with the HW box..never heard of it going out of control...
Did have some issues at first up in Kelowna, BC, flying down the valley, tight turn that doubled back, circling a ridge..box kept wanting to short cut to the parallel closer waypoint (straight thru the ridge)
Needed to add some tricks to the coding, not typical, but it worked..
Did have some issues at first up in Kelowna, BC, flying down the valley, tight turn that doubled back, circling a ridge..box kept wanting to short cut to the parallel closer waypoint (straight thru the ridge)
Needed to add some tricks to the coding, not typical, but it worked..
Joined: Feb 2006
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 490
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From: USA
New on NG
The RNAV (RNP) Y RWY 22L approach is an "AR" (Authorization Required) procedure.
The approach doesn't belong in an operator's database unless the operator has obtained the necessary approvals.
The approval processes are described in AC 90-101A.
Also see Performance Based Flight Systems Branch ? Additional Information for Required Navigation Performance (RNP) Authorization Required (AR)
The RNAV (GPS) Z 22L approach is a non-AR procedure and flyable by the G550, but only to the LNAV minimums. Note the offset final approach course.
The RNAV (RNP) Y RWY 22L approach is an "AR" (Authorization Required) procedure.
The approach doesn't belong in an operator's database unless the operator has obtained the necessary approvals.
The approval processes are described in AC 90-101A.
Also see Performance Based Flight Systems Branch ? Additional Information for Required Navigation Performance (RNP) Authorization Required (AR)
The RNAV (GPS) Z 22L approach is a non-AR procedure and flyable by the G550, but only to the LNAV minimums. Note the offset final approach course.
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 30
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From: PA
Procedure names should just stay the same. When a new on comes along it shouldnt reorg all the others.
That naming drives me crazy, and all of the waypoints assigned to that procedure have to be updated...
Make about as much sense as changing the runway due to magvar...
That naming drives me crazy, and all of the waypoints assigned to that procedure have to be updated...
Make about as much sense as changing the runway due to magvar...
Joined: Feb 2006
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 490
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From: USA
The procedure title is a keystone in the database business.
For the pilot, retrieving the procedure by name is mandatory and addresses all of the "updating" issues -- pilots are never permitted to manually construct an RNAV procedure by loading a series of waypoints.
In the USA, public RNAV approaches are labeled RNAV (GPS) RWY NN.
All FAA approaches with "RNP" in the titles are "AR".
Joined: Aug 2013
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From: PA
Zeff, that is not what I meant.
It is the RNAV (RNP) Z, Y, W, X, etc that I was referencing.
In the US, the procedure with the lowest minima is 'Z', then the letters go up according to the minima of the procedure.
So if a new procedure comes along with a lower minima, everything is renamed. That is what I am complaining about.
In addition, all navaids and waypoints are tagged in the AVN database with all of the procedures they are used on. So when a procedure gets renamed, all of the waypoint tags must be updated.
It is the RNAV (RNP) Z, Y, W, X, etc that I was referencing.
In the US, the procedure with the lowest minima is 'Z', then the letters go up according to the minima of the procedure.
So if a new procedure comes along with a lower minima, everything is renamed. That is what I am complaining about.
In addition, all navaids and waypoints are tagged in the AVN database with all of the procedures they are used on. So when a procedure gets renamed, all of the waypoint tags must be updated.
Joined: Mar 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Seat 1A
In the US, the procedure with the lowest minima is 'Z', then the letters go up according to the minima of the procedure.
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Joined: Apr 2009
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From: On the Beach
ok465:
It is tough. The pilot has to be able to read and analyze. 
But, since few outside the airline world will ever be able to qualify for RNP AR, it becomes somewhat closer to easy.
Seriously, RNP AR is a great option for the aviation elite where difficult terrain would otherwise prevent a straight-in IAP. But, the airlines have driven the gross overuse of RNP AR where the only benefits are supposed fuel savings.
This one's interesting. You need an authorization to get to 3973 or 4079 on the RNP 'Zulu', but you can fly the LNAV/VNAV on the GPS 'Yankee' to 3952
Nobody said it would be easy.
Nobody said it would be easy.
But, since few outside the airline world will ever be able to qualify for RNP AR, it becomes somewhat closer to easy.
Seriously, RNP AR is a great option for the aviation elite where difficult terrain would otherwise prevent a straight-in IAP. But, the airlines have driven the gross overuse of RNP AR where the only benefits are supposed fuel savings.
Joined: Aug 2013
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From: PA
Seriously, RNP AR is a great option for the aviation elite where difficult terrain would otherwise prevent a straight-in IAP. But, the airlines have driven the gross overuse of RNP AR where the only benefits are supposed fuel savings.
ATC is going to tell you to maintain 180 to 3000, and 60 to 2/4 nm...hardly idle descent...
While the best fuel saving for idle descent is from enroute to FL10, there are very few RNP procedures that cover that... the ones in Canada were the closest, RNP from the STAR...
Hence to say, I looked more for access, than fuel savings... the missed approach and EO missed make a huge difference, especially when it starts to warm up/cool down. Departure RNP works very, very well, but is very, very custom, and the benefits make it difficult except for the extremes...
In AUS, there are many airports that start to limit access and/or divert due to the ceilings, and it is easy to tell who has the RNP at these locations. This si a very, very good use of RNP AR. A location like Queenstown...great use.
Of course, the procedures in China that are hundreds of nm long....
