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Benefits of ADS-B

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Benefits of ADS-B

Old 5th May 2014, 14:42
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Benefits of ADS-B

Apart from allowing cool apps on iPhones to watch traffic coming and going, what enhancements/safety benefits does ADSB transponding bring to ATC. It doesn't add anything to mode s data does it ?

Also, why is it that I can only see aircraft in my phone app once they're airborne ? Is the data that my iPhone picks up trasmitted from the aircraft or via the radar ground station ?

Many thanks.
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Old 5th May 2014, 15:48
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Originally Posted by buzzc152 View Post
Apart from allowing cool apps on iPhones to watch traffic coming and going, what enhancements/safety benefits does ADSB transponding bring to ATC.
It can add the ability to see aircraft. For example, the Hudson Bay area of Canada was non-radar. No radar was being installed because it is so expensive to install maintain, especially in a remote area like that. But, when relatively cheap non-moving receiver antennas can be installed with lower maintenance costs, it becomes viable. Now there is radar equivalent in the Hudson Bay area for properly equipped aircraft.
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Old 5th May 2014, 18:16
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No radar in Central Australia. On a typical Ayers Rock to Cairns service, pre ADSB, we'd be radar identified only for the last 200 odd nm into Cairns. Now, with ADSB, we're identified on first contact wit with ATC, which is some 770 nm earlier.
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Old 5th May 2014, 18:24
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Only a matter of time before it leads to reduced separation on the North Atlantic. At present all aircraft at same level are separated by a minimum of ten minutes, which is incredibly inefficient in comparison to Radar separations which are 5 miles where I work
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Old 5th May 2014, 20:06
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Next Generation Air Transportation System (NextGen)
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Old 5th May 2014, 20:09
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ADS-B provides more accurate aircraft positioning than Radar, can ead to reduced separation and less restrictions on airspace utilization...and subsequent fuel savings and less carbon emissions.
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Old 5th May 2014, 21:14
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ADS broadcast (ADS-B) is transmitted from the aircraft transponder continuously whilst it is powered on. It is different from ADS-C which is transmitted to a specific ground station using SATCOM or VHF etc at specific times determined by the 'contract'.

ADS-B sends out various aircraft parameters including position every few milliseconds which is decoded by a ground station. It is distinctly different from a radar that picks up position manually and SSR information.

The ADS broadcast is not encrypted and can be picked up by anyone with a 1090mhz receiver which includes ground stations, spotters, and even other aircraft that have ADS-In capability. This can be displayed on the ND etc.

ADS-B therefore has the advantage that no ground based radar receiver is required and the only device required to present an accurate radar picture is a single tuner capable of receiving on 1090mhz.

Edited to add note that the ADS-B will only be picked up within range of the transponder which is typically a couple of hundred miles....ADS-C using satcom, such as is used Oceanic will work when in range of satellites.
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Old 5th May 2014, 22:29
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less fruit.

and ADS-B transmits twice a second airborne and once a second on the ground.
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Old 5th May 2014, 23:23
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.. for the luddites amongst us in the sand pit ... what happens when the power failure occurs and the back up power strategy doesn't work ?

If substantial reductions in separation are in place, procedural rules are going to be hard pressed to sort it all out before confetti rain occurs ?
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Old 5th May 2014, 23:44
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Same thing that happens under SSR radar I guess...
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Old 6th May 2014, 00:09
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It has an advantage to helicopter operators that work in busy airspace. I can see aircraft running on the ground and working at low level, well under the radar
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Old 6th May 2014, 04:20
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Think I might take Cunard ...
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Old 6th May 2014, 04:33
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Now Flying around we might have noticed with fly the airspace equivalent of a motorcycle, and it's easy to go unnoticed. So for all the fast fixed wingers and other aircraft blasting around they'll see us on the map and get an alert that we are near.
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Old 6th May 2014, 06:55
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In case I missed it on the huge informative thread of MH370, Was it equipped with ADS-B/C?
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Old 6th May 2014, 17:11
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Yes, but for some reason it became non-operational when the plane was on course half way across the gulf of Thailand between Malaysia and Vietnam.
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Old 6th May 2014, 20:00
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There are many benefits of ADS systems, Mode S, ADS-B, ADS-C, all have different parameters.

NextGen was supposed to go live with ADSB 2 in 2020. This is ADSB-Out only.
At the last conference, about 3 weeks ago, it looked pretty grimm. Bandwirdth is a huge issue. What is to be included in the broadcast is stuck in all kinds of committees and interest groups. The big surprise was that in the FAA budget for 2014/2015, there is no money alloted for ADSB. From what I have heard, I am not sure if the FAA has any budget for 2014/2015

With regards to ADSB-In, there is little chance that any of us will see this implemented. Boeing does not support ADSB-In because of the security/integrity issues. They stated they will only do what is mandated that they do.
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Old 7th May 2014, 00:32
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What does that have to do with ADSB-IN?

That was a test in 2008, what happened to the pilot program?
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Old 8th May 2014, 04:36
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GPS position. This will allow for a a whole bunch of advancement in ATC/aircraft automation.
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Old 8th May 2014, 08:27
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Question: Does ADS-B as a concept require GPS to work?

Answer: No.

The D in "ADS-B" stands for dependent, as in, on onboard navigation sources. Now what exactly the technology of that source is is fully open for implementation to resolve - it doesn't say "dependent on GNSS". It just so happens that GPS is currently the only such system out there that delivers the accuracy, integrity and continuity needed to make the dependency worthwhile for surveillance application in civil aviation. So what are other navigation sources that could be considered?

In the first instance, generally any GNSS. Technically, the russian GLONASS is good enough for the same application as GPS and using or not using it for ADS-B is a political question. Putin loves nothing more than to lure gullible and shortsighted west European politicians into yet more interdependency so that he can then force their hand when needed, like, say, when invading a neighbour country with aspirations towards membership in Euro or North Atlantic institutions. Soon enough China will have their version of GNSS running and India is aspiring to the same at a longer horizon. In the ADS-B standard there is nothing that forbides the respective countries to enable, or dare I say, mandate that traffic operating in their airspace be ADS-B capable using their native GNSS system. It is the likelihood of an equivalent reciprocation from the West that makes this a non-option, not the technical means.

In the second instance, the onboard inertial unit. Contemporary systems, albeit improving, generally are not yet up to the performance standards required for proper surveillance but it is better than nothing if the GPS should fail or become unavailable, and position info delivered by those is useful in degrading to procedural control or clearing the sky, whatever is stipulated as the next mode of operation. It may not be usable to provide a 5NM separation due to low integrity, but it is still usable information.

And in third and further instances, any number of technological means, extant or upcoming. Take a look in the NAV domain, where PBN makes good use of the existing DME infrastructure, to great effect. A pair of DME's in a suitable configuration can support a 0.3 NM RNP approach - that is way more precise than what a 5 NM enroute separation would require. It would however by prohibitively expensive to dot the Earth with DME units to provide the required coverage for a meaningful separation application. Thus it becomes a feasibility limitation, but not a technical one.
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Old 8th May 2014, 11:20
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Are UPS still using ADS-B for pilot controlled self-separation at Louisville or was this only a trial which has finished?
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