Why is 2000 fpm initial rate of climb on auto GA
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One thing that I was taught during my initial training on the NG was the gouge: 400ft... "AT, LNAV, Autopilot, Set Radios for missed approach" . WORKS LIKE A CHARM!
So, this is the sequence I do nowadays: Toga (just once, as long as the situation doesn't demands a second push) , throttles forward, ask for flap 15 and after positive RoC is achieved, gear up. When the workload reduces to the chap next to me I ask him to Set Go Around thrust and, as soon as I'm above the amber altitude band, I call for the At, Roll mode and Autopilot!
After watching some GAs, there are a few things that I couldn't understand so far:
# Why most of the pilots forget that the AT is avaiable? Once this caused a huuuuuge flap limit exceedance to the operator Im flying. Something like 250kt with flaps 15...
# Whats the thing on pushing the damn toga button twice, even for low altitude level offs?
#Why some keep disconnecting the autopilot and the autothrottle to perform a go around? Don't they know that once you push the toga button the autopilot will automatically switch off (single channel GA)?
Just a few thoughts!
So, this is the sequence I do nowadays: Toga (just once, as long as the situation doesn't demands a second push) , throttles forward, ask for flap 15 and after positive RoC is achieved, gear up. When the workload reduces to the chap next to me I ask him to Set Go Around thrust and, as soon as I'm above the amber altitude band, I call for the At, Roll mode and Autopilot!
After watching some GAs, there are a few things that I couldn't understand so far:
# Why most of the pilots forget that the AT is avaiable? Once this caused a huuuuuge flap limit exceedance to the operator Im flying. Something like 250kt with flaps 15...
# Whats the thing on pushing the damn toga button twice, even for low altitude level offs?
#Why some keep disconnecting the autopilot and the autothrottle to perform a go around? Don't they know that once you push the toga button the autopilot will automatically switch off (single channel GA)?
Just a few thoughts!
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Automation just does what it is told. My check airman checking me out in the 767 wanted the leg from LAX to SAN one night and using automation ended up 300 feet high at 320 knots when I, the FO, told him to disconnect everything throttle way back and lower the nose when our clearance was 2500 ft. He had no idea how to fix the problem with automation he had screwed up. Hand flying sometimes makes things easy. First you have to know how to hand fly.
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la meme ma avec A320
Slightly, drifting off TOGA City, but,
my question is generally speaking - not necessarily in a go-around,
Whilst still in SRS.
1/. Can you move the t/l to CLB before accel alt . . ? What happens?
2/. What happens to the speed if you stop climb - when a/t armed and a/p in, whilst you are level? (Managed climb - but managed climb would not be managed if you stopped climb?)
my question is generally speaking - not necessarily in a go-around,
Whilst still in SRS.
1/. Can you move the t/l to CLB before accel alt . . ? What happens?
2/. What happens to the speed if you stop climb - when a/t armed and a/p in, whilst you are level? (Managed climb - but managed climb would not be managed if you stopped climb?)
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A320
You can, and arm CLB/OPEN CLB then, mean you'll perform the acceleration from then on.
Yes, you can prematurely select CLB thrust, but this will not affect the acceleration altitude. In fact it is routinely done in order to lower the climb rate whilst staying in SRS mode.
Once in SRS the only way to engage OP CLB/CLB mode is by:
-passing accel alt
Or
-pulling or pushing the ALT knob respectively.
The Thrust Levers do not interact with the vertical guidance modes, except for engaging SRS when TOGA is selected and Flap Lever -< 1.
2/. What happens to the speed if you stop climb - when a/t armed and a/p in, whilst you are level? (Managed climb - but managed climb would not be managed if you stopped climb?)
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Natstrackalpha
1. In a GA, CLB mode (managed mode) is not available but only OPCLB.
2. SRS mode cannot have select speed. If approach was done in select speed it will automatically change to managed speed and in SRS if you change to select speed SRS will change to OPCLB.
3. THR RED and ACC altitude have different functions. Whenever you bring thrust levers to CLB, thrust changes to THRCLB and auto thrust to active ATHR from armed i.e. from blue. So now you have overspeed protection. SRS will continue till ACC ALT.
4. If you do not bring thrust levers to idle at THR RED altitude as long as you are climbing FMGS will restrict speed to VFE by increasing climb rate but it will no do so in ALT since ATHR is not active and you risk overspeed. Does it answer your question?
1. In a GA, CLB mode (managed mode) is not available but only OPCLB.
2. SRS mode cannot have select speed. If approach was done in select speed it will automatically change to managed speed and in SRS if you change to select speed SRS will change to OPCLB.
3. THR RED and ACC altitude have different functions. Whenever you bring thrust levers to CLB, thrust changes to THRCLB and auto thrust to active ATHR from armed i.e. from blue. So now you have overspeed protection. SRS will continue till ACC ALT.
4. If you do not bring thrust levers to idle at THR RED altitude as long as you are climbing FMGS will restrict speed to VFE by increasing climb rate but it will no do so in ALT since ATHR is not active and you risk overspeed. Does it answer your question?
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That is availalbe whenever the AT system is active, for those airlines (like the one i'm working for) that use the ARM mode it is available in manual flight as well, thus precluding any requirement to figure out any thrust demand for oneself.
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OPEN DES
A320
Climbing away, TOGA, SRS, Open, Managed - any climb you desire.
Suddenly - you decide to stop climb. If you use the v/s zero method, if this can done then what would happen to your speed?
1/.You would accelerate?
2/.The aircraft would level but the speed would default to the climbspeed what was?
3/. The aircraft would settle down (given time) to a temporary cruise speed for that WAT.
My question is we were climbing and we stopped climb. (as opposed to simply levelling off) by this I mean.
(These are unfair questions - I should be paying you money).
One more, question, if I may . . .
This is nuts, but I did not say it - about TOGA from an approach:
They said, (I forgot who it was now) they said that selecting toga when dual CATIII would have the aircraft in the same mode but in TOGA power therefore increasing speed in the landing configuration they slightly dramatized this configuration. So:
Approaching CAT III Dual say, one parameter lost and/or for some reason you decide to go-around - I am just verifying that simply setting TOGA will simply not cut it. Therefore,
Acceleration Alt pre-set pull or push ASSUMING IT IS ABOVE YOU.
set TOGA thrust. Result =.............and/but . . if you move the T/L significantly by pulling back say then the a/p will disc, and you can fly to your climbing attitude, attitude?
So - by pulling or pushing the g/a alt, thus having been pre-set - will not work as all alts are locked out during a catIII dual approach.
Confused? Don`t be. Here is a different hypothesis.
Approaching CATIII Dual. All is stable, then application of full back sidestick, a/p drops out, nose pitches up, if above 100 r/a then alpha floor toga, climb . . vfe, clean as you go.
Summary
1/. By stopping climb - what happens to the rest of it - spd, accel?
2/. In a cancelled CATIII App - apart from disc a/p set TOGA and fly it out
can a breakout (if that is the right word . . ?) be performed with the pb`s without touching the sidestick - I say no. But I am only learning,
(a mere husk of meaning)
A320
Climbing away, TOGA, SRS, Open, Managed - any climb you desire.
Suddenly - you decide to stop climb. If you use the v/s zero method, if this can done then what would happen to your speed?
1/.You would accelerate?
2/.The aircraft would level but the speed would default to the climbspeed what was?
3/. The aircraft would settle down (given time) to a temporary cruise speed for that WAT.
My question is we were climbing and we stopped climb. (as opposed to simply levelling off) by this I mean.
(These are unfair questions - I should be paying you money).
One more, question, if I may . . .
This is nuts, but I did not say it - about TOGA from an approach:
They said, (I forgot who it was now) they said that selecting toga when dual CATIII would have the aircraft in the same mode but in TOGA power therefore increasing speed in the landing configuration they slightly dramatized this configuration. So:
Approaching CAT III Dual say, one parameter lost and/or for some reason you decide to go-around - I am just verifying that simply setting TOGA will simply not cut it. Therefore,
Acceleration Alt pre-set pull or push ASSUMING IT IS ABOVE YOU.
set TOGA thrust. Result =.............and/but . . if you move the T/L significantly by pulling back say then the a/p will disc, and you can fly to your climbing attitude, attitude?
So - by pulling or pushing the g/a alt, thus having been pre-set - will not work as all alts are locked out during a catIII dual approach.
Confused? Don`t be. Here is a different hypothesis.
Approaching CATIII Dual. All is stable, then application of full back sidestick, a/p drops out, nose pitches up, if above 100 r/a then alpha floor toga, climb . . vfe, clean as you go.
Summary
1/. By stopping climb - what happens to the rest of it - spd, accel?
2/. In a cancelled CATIII App - apart from disc a/p set TOGA and fly it out
can a breakout (if that is the right word . . ?) be performed with the pb`s without touching the sidestick - I say no. But I am only learning,
(a mere husk of meaning)
Last edited by Natstrackalpha; 20th Jan 2014 at 07:52.
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Nats
I think you are confusing matters. Are you taking off or going round? I mentioned everything about GA in the earlier post. After takeoff you may be in CLB/OPCLB. If you now push to level SRS will change to V/S0 aircraft will accelerate and speed target will be initial climb speed 250. If thrust levers are brought to climb then speed protection is available otherwise you bust speed. What is the meaning of just levelling off? how doyou do that?
I think you are confusing matters. Are you taking off or going round? I mentioned everything about GA in the earlier post. After takeoff you may be in CLB/OPCLB. If you now push to level SRS will change to V/S0 aircraft will accelerate and speed target will be initial climb speed 250. If thrust levers are brought to climb then speed protection is available otherwise you bust speed. What is the meaning of just levelling off? how doyou do that?
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"""What is the meaning of just levelling off? how do you do that? """
how do I do that? we are climbing, we want to level off, Lower the nose, select or keep airspeed, re-set . . . ? APT. re-set present alt - selected - becomes new cruise alt . . a/p in . . . . .
up haven`t I . .?!! (I think a month in a locked room with AUTOMATIC FLIGHT of the A320 is perhaps crucial here).
Thank you Vilas and Safelife and OPEN DESCENT.
how do I do that? we are climbing, we want to level off, Lower the nose, select or keep airspeed, re-set . . . ? APT. re-set present alt - selected - becomes new cruise alt . . a/p in . . . . .
up haven`t I . .?!! (I think a month in a locked room with AUTOMATIC FLIGHT of the A320 is perhaps crucial here).Thank you Vilas and Safelife and OPEN DESCENT.
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Nats
If you lower nose to level out by not following the FDs which are in climb/OPCLB and thrust is in CLb then speed will increase till VFE/ VMO and then mode reversion will happen thereby FDs go off ATHR changes to speed mode, Managed speed reverts to select speed and is pulled back by thrust going idle.
If you lower nose to level out by not following the FDs which are in climb/OPCLB and thrust is in CLb then speed will increase till VFE/ VMO and then mode reversion will happen thereby FDs go off ATHR changes to speed mode, Managed speed reverts to select speed and is pulled back by thrust going idle.
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bubbers44 Automation just does what it is told. My check airman checking me out in the 767 wanted the leg from LAX to SAN one night and using automation ended up 300 feet high at 320 knots when I, the FO, told him to disconnect everything throttle way back and lower the nose when our clearance was 2500 ft. He had no idea how to fix the problem with automation he had screwed up. Hand flying sometimes makes things easy. First you have to know how to hand fly.
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vilas
Thanks vilas, Re: me posts above - I meant Thr Red when I asked about accel altitude. Sorry about the confusion.
(you guys know your stuff)
(you guys know your stuff)
