Need advice on getting a degree.
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Need advice on getting a degree.
Hey all.
Ill first give everyone my short story.
Ater completing highschool, I did what ive always dreamt of doings; flying.
Had a part time job, had some help from my family, and successfully completed training in 2 1/2 years due to sme delays.
Needless to say I could not find a job at first, but was fortunate enough to eventually do some instructing, and then finally got my big break now flying the airbus 320.
I am now a line FO, working for an expanding company, stable job, and everything is good.
I do want to get a degree as I never did before. Education is never a waste I believe. Also, it could be used as a backup, and possibly also gives me a shot at some managerial position sometime 5-10 years later.
I'm looking for suggestions on what degree would really be an advantage to have.
Any info would be appreciated.
Thank you
Ill first give everyone my short story.
Ater completing highschool, I did what ive always dreamt of doings; flying.
Had a part time job, had some help from my family, and successfully completed training in 2 1/2 years due to sme delays.
Needless to say I could not find a job at first, but was fortunate enough to eventually do some instructing, and then finally got my big break now flying the airbus 320.
I am now a line FO, working for an expanding company, stable job, and everything is good.
I do want to get a degree as I never did before. Education is never a waste I believe. Also, it could be used as a backup, and possibly also gives me a shot at some managerial position sometime 5-10 years later.
I'm looking for suggestions on what degree would really be an advantage to have.
Any info would be appreciated.
Thank you
Last edited by WhySoTough; 6th Apr 2013 at 09:16.
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Well, that's a toughie!
You already have a successful carreer path mapped-out. For what it's worth, I'd suggest you steer clear of "arty- Farty" "soft" subjects....Even stuff like an MBA is tarnished.
A solid, science-based degree would seem the way to go, you would need to match the degree to your own interests and affinities.
Something like the Open University courses may be a possibility to continue working and study mostly at your own convenience.
Chucking a stable employment at this stage of your life would be foolish. I don't see the Air-travel industry regaining it's former profitability for a long time yet. (oil prices and world recession have killed the holiday/charter market)
just my take on things, be interested to see others' opinions.
You already have a successful carreer path mapped-out. For what it's worth, I'd suggest you steer clear of "arty- Farty" "soft" subjects....Even stuff like an MBA is tarnished.
A solid, science-based degree would seem the way to go, you would need to match the degree to your own interests and affinities.
Something like the Open University courses may be a possibility to continue working and study mostly at your own convenience.
Chucking a stable employment at this stage of your life would be foolish. I don't see the Air-travel industry regaining it's former profitability for a long time yet. (oil prices and world recession have killed the holiday/charter market)
just my take on things, be interested to see others' opinions.
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If you want to eventually go the managerial route and want to stay away from the "soft" subjects, a BS in Math with a concentration in Actuarials or Statistics would be a good one. Add in some Economics. If you're bored after that, a MS in Operations Research might be a good one, though might make you overqualified for most airline managements...
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. . . you could try airline management - there is a degree of sorts somewhere, or Air Transport Operations - you could go for Dispatcher which would equal similar to what you are now doing, except the flying bit.
If you do Airline Management whilst being a pilot - it will give you a conceptual outlook on what you are doing. Hopefully, it won`t mess your head up as `pilots` and `management` tend to be different species, politically.
You could do Astrophysics and be in with a chance in the next pax space race.
Enjoy!
If you do Airline Management whilst being a pilot - it will give you a conceptual outlook on what you are doing. Hopefully, it won`t mess your head up as `pilots` and `management` tend to be different species, politically.
You could do Astrophysics and be in with a chance in the next pax space race.
Enjoy!
Last edited by Natstrackalpha; 7th Apr 2013 at 08:11.
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In my opinion I don't think you should be wasting your time with a university style degree as such - unless you do a specific vocational degree, such as medicine. I wouldn't do an airline management degree either, if you want a backup plan then I would stay clear of anything aviation related.
If you want a solid back up plan which could help in the future for a managerial role then I would look into accountancy. Without a degree you need to start one step lower than graduates but if you have an interested in the subject then its probably an OK way to start. Do an AAT (accounting technician qualification, I think). Unlike the more advanced accountancy qualifications I don't think you need work experience in an accountancy practice so you can do it via distance learning in your own time...which probably suits you if you already have a full time job in a different sector. If, for whatever reason, you leave aviation then you would be able to start at an accountancy practice without the need for a degree and become qualified as a chartered accountant...and from there you pretty much have a job for life and a guaranteed salary thats pretty good. If you decide to move into a managerial role in the airline, then having an accountancy qualification definitely won't impede you although maybe if you had real life accountancy experience it would probably help even more.
Either way I think its wise to focus on practical/vocational qualifications.
If you want a solid back up plan which could help in the future for a managerial role then I would look into accountancy. Without a degree you need to start one step lower than graduates but if you have an interested in the subject then its probably an OK way to start. Do an AAT (accounting technician qualification, I think). Unlike the more advanced accountancy qualifications I don't think you need work experience in an accountancy practice so you can do it via distance learning in your own time...which probably suits you if you already have a full time job in a different sector. If, for whatever reason, you leave aviation then you would be able to start at an accountancy practice without the need for a degree and become qualified as a chartered accountant...and from there you pretty much have a job for life and a guaranteed salary thats pretty good. If you decide to move into a managerial role in the airline, then having an accountancy qualification definitely won't impede you although maybe if you had real life accountancy experience it would probably help even more.
Either way I think its wise to focus on practical/vocational qualifications.
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Probably the most important thing is to study something you're interested in or are going to enjoy. I agree, learning stuff is never wasted and you can never tell what life will do with you - or how something you learned about, either through study or experience, will come in handy later.
As for recommendations - it's difficult because we are all different. If like organising things, or understanding a bit more about how organisations work well (or not), maybe one of the management disciplines is the way to go. It's what I did some years ago after starting out in ATC. I think it has served me well although I've never had any hankering to be a manager; I much prefer actually doing and achieving things! As the years have passed....and I have found myself more and more involved in aviation legislation (everything from drafting to interpreting and implementing).....I find I might have enjoyed doing law, although if you had suggested it to me when I was in my 20s I would have run a mile.
On a more general point, legislation is so ubiquitous a law degree could come in handy in whatever field you might find yourself.
If you're thinking about having a fallback if you lose your medical or whatever, and you think that you would want to stay in this business, then management with a specialism in some sort of safety would probably be useful. If you were to lose your licence and want to get away from aviation, then do something that will equip you to earn a crust. IT is an option, but things move on very quickly and skills you learn today will be of limited value professionally in ten years if you have done nothing related in the interim. If you're thinking that a qualification is useful at the end, don't just look at undergraduate/first degrees - in aviation/transport subjects your professional licence may well get you into a postgrad course.
But my real advice goes back to square one - if you're going to put effort and time into studying anything, make sure it's something you'll enjoy.
As for recommendations - it's difficult because we are all different. If like organising things, or understanding a bit more about how organisations work well (or not), maybe one of the management disciplines is the way to go. It's what I did some years ago after starting out in ATC. I think it has served me well although I've never had any hankering to be a manager; I much prefer actually doing and achieving things! As the years have passed....and I have found myself more and more involved in aviation legislation (everything from drafting to interpreting and implementing).....I find I might have enjoyed doing law, although if you had suggested it to me when I was in my 20s I would have run a mile.
On a more general point, legislation is so ubiquitous a law degree could come in handy in whatever field you might find yourself.
If you're thinking about having a fallback if you lose your medical or whatever, and you think that you would want to stay in this business, then management with a specialism in some sort of safety would probably be useful. If you were to lose your licence and want to get away from aviation, then do something that will equip you to earn a crust. IT is an option, but things move on very quickly and skills you learn today will be of limited value professionally in ten years if you have done nothing related in the interim. If you're thinking that a qualification is useful at the end, don't just look at undergraduate/first degrees - in aviation/transport subjects your professional licence may well get you into a postgrad course.
But my real advice goes back to square one - if you're going to put effort and time into studying anything, make sure it's something you'll enjoy.
If you have access to the Open University then your options are unlimited. I completed an LLb (hons) with them whilst flying. Mainly for the reasons you specified and I have always had an interest in Law and it has given me a very good overall knowledge in lots of different areas.
Another person I fly with has just completed his Psychology degree. Mine took me 6 years of nice 'relaxed' study, he has done his in 4 years with a bit more effort.
Just go for it, with the OU you will find there are some subjects like humanities and sociology which are nice ways to introduce distance learning and count towards most degree courses, why not just give one a go and decide which way you want to go once you have a 'taste' of what is required.
Another person I fly with has just completed his Psychology degree. Mine took me 6 years of nice 'relaxed' study, he has done his in 4 years with a bit more effort.
Just go for it, with the OU you will find there are some subjects like humanities and sociology which are nice ways to introduce distance learning and count towards most degree courses, why not just give one a go and decide which way you want to go once you have a 'taste' of what is required.
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Main things to consider
(a) marketability of a qualification .. now and later. While we can trot out the trite expressions about the qualification's being useful in itself, the reality is that some qualifications are not particularly marketable when it comes to getting a paying job .. PhDs in needlework and similar come to mind.
(b) is the qualification liable to go stale unless you work in the discipline in parallel with flying ? If it's liable to go stale how difficult is it to get back up to speed and become marketable.
(c) does it suit working part time in parallel with flying ?
(d) underlying interest in the discipline.
Examples I can bring to mind ..
(a) a long-retired chap who, as an ANA F/O in Australia, qualified in medicine .. subsequently gave flying away and went into medicine full time .. qualified in electrical engineering and ran a successful avionics shop on the side. He had a 685 (if I recall correctly) .. did some design work on it at one stage and traded that work for a hour or two at Essendon .. he was in the RHS (to make sure I didn't kill myself) for the flight but wasn't used to tight circuits within the aerodrome boundary .. a very nimble aeroplane with only two on board.
(b) I qualified in aero engineering .. then, after getting into airlines .. was approached by DCA to do some engineering work on the side .. led to quite a successful and interesting parallel career.
(c) a contemporary in aero eng. Worked for DCA and then into airlines. Post the 1989 stoush, flew overseas. Eventually ended up as CEO (if my recollection is correct) in a significant third level airline operation.
(d) colleague who qualified in Commerce (as I recall) then did a serious MBA. Led to a useful parallel airline management career.
(e) two colleagues who qualified in law. One, I gather, has more or less moved out of flying but is still involved in aviation law. The other still runs a successful GA training operation as a parallel business.
There are a few others I can bring to mind but you will get the idea, I'm sure.
Problem with disciplines such as engineering and medicine is fitting in the shop front practical work for the undergrad subjects in parallel with flying .. can be done, but expect some sweat along the way.
(a) marketability of a qualification .. now and later. While we can trot out the trite expressions about the qualification's being useful in itself, the reality is that some qualifications are not particularly marketable when it comes to getting a paying job .. PhDs in needlework and similar come to mind.
(b) is the qualification liable to go stale unless you work in the discipline in parallel with flying ? If it's liable to go stale how difficult is it to get back up to speed and become marketable.
(c) does it suit working part time in parallel with flying ?
(d) underlying interest in the discipline.
Examples I can bring to mind ..
(a) a long-retired chap who, as an ANA F/O in Australia, qualified in medicine .. subsequently gave flying away and went into medicine full time .. qualified in electrical engineering and ran a successful avionics shop on the side. He had a 685 (if I recall correctly) .. did some design work on it at one stage and traded that work for a hour or two at Essendon .. he was in the RHS (to make sure I didn't kill myself) for the flight but wasn't used to tight circuits within the aerodrome boundary .. a very nimble aeroplane with only two on board.
(b) I qualified in aero engineering .. then, after getting into airlines .. was approached by DCA to do some engineering work on the side .. led to quite a successful and interesting parallel career.
(c) a contemporary in aero eng. Worked for DCA and then into airlines. Post the 1989 stoush, flew overseas. Eventually ended up as CEO (if my recollection is correct) in a significant third level airline operation.
(d) colleague who qualified in Commerce (as I recall) then did a serious MBA. Led to a useful parallel airline management career.
(e) two colleagues who qualified in law. One, I gather, has more or less moved out of flying but is still involved in aviation law. The other still runs a successful GA training operation as a parallel business.
There are a few others I can bring to mind but you will get the idea, I'm sure.
Problem with disciplines such as engineering and medicine is fitting in the shop front practical work for the undergrad subjects in parallel with flying .. can be done, but expect some sweat along the way.
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You are flying the A320. So you do not want to retire as an airline captain? Why do you want to go into management? The money? Think about what you are trying to do and decide exactly what your goals are. You sound very young. Maybe you should just stick with what you are doing until you get older and maybe you can save yourself a lot of hard work. I was very happy retiring as a major airline captain and in my opinion the worst job would be sitting in an office while the pilots are having all the fun. You have to decide for yourself though.
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I can see the reasons why you'ld want a degree, both for personal growth and as a backup for when professional flying is no longer an option.
If you're going for personal growth, do something that interests you (and where you have capabilities.) One study not mentioned yet is Philosophy. One dutch pilot (Lucas van Gerwen) went out to study psychology and now is director of the Dutch center (VALK) that treats fearful fliers and a respected scientist in his field. So even studies that don't seem practical at first may help you into a new job.
I would say, go for any (academic) study if you feel the need... "distance education" (Open University) is your best bet, as they are more flexible to fit in your schedule.
If you're going for personal growth, do something that interests you (and where you have capabilities.) One study not mentioned yet is Philosophy. One dutch pilot (Lucas van Gerwen) went out to study psychology and now is director of the Dutch center (VALK) that treats fearful fliers and a respected scientist in his field. So even studies that don't seem practical at first may help you into a new job.
I would say, go for any (academic) study if you feel the need... "distance education" (Open University) is your best bet, as they are more flexible to fit in your schedule.
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You are flying the A320. So you do not want to retire as an airline captain? Why do you want to go into management? The money? Think about what you are trying to do and decide exactly what your goals are. You sound very young. Maybe you should just stick with what you are doing until you get older and maybe you can save yourself a lot of hard work. I was very happy retiring as a major airline captain and in my opinion the worst job would be sitting in an office while the pilots are having all the fun. You have to decide for yourself though.
On ,that note, maybe you have loads of time on your hands whilst between rotas. Do something in your spare time, maybe, learn the guitar, piano, form a band, or get laid often with a partner of your choice. Go on an exotic holiday, or indeed do a degree of your choice, part time, spare time like, Computer Science. . . or something, indeed, something close to your heart.
All the advice on these posts is friendly and good.
Read bubbers post again though, its cool.
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Just to add to what everyone else has sent.
Almost all universities do 'distance learning' courses. Now choose a course that you would _enjoy_ doing. Archeology, real-time-underwater basket weaving - whatever. It is your choice not others. Then treat the course not as most students do - as something the MUST do for their career. Treat it as FUN - that may affect your choice of course but it is really important that you don't see the course as an imposition but rather as an enjoyable hobby. Believe it or not that will increase your scores on the course _and_ take the pressure off. So then do the course enjoy it as a hobby.
At the end - you are still happily on the flight deck, you can put whatever course it was onto your CV and perhaps even do another.
I know one pilot who not only did a first degree but just as something to do carried on to get 3 different masters degrees. Just something interesting to do with no pressure if it doesn't work.
Life is here to be enjoyed - go fill your boots
Almost all universities do 'distance learning' courses. Now choose a course that you would _enjoy_ doing. Archeology, real-time-underwater basket weaving - whatever. It is your choice not others. Then treat the course not as most students do - as something the MUST do for their career. Treat it as FUN - that may affect your choice of course but it is really important that you don't see the course as an imposition but rather as an enjoyable hobby. Believe it or not that will increase your scores on the course _and_ take the pressure off. So then do the course enjoy it as a hobby.
At the end - you are still happily on the flight deck, you can put whatever course it was onto your CV and perhaps even do another.
I know one pilot who not only did a first degree but just as something to do carried on to get 3 different masters degrees. Just something interesting to do with no pressure if it doesn't work.
Life is here to be enjoyed - go fill your boots
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MIT OPEN COURSEWARE
Google 'MIT open courseware'
Nearly every degree you can think of is available there including lectures + notes, assessments, online textbooks and student work. You don't even need to sign in
AMAZING!
Nearly every degree you can think of is available there including lectures + notes, assessments, online textbooks and student work. You don't even need to sign in
AMAZING!
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I agree with Bubbers, specialy the 2nd post!! 
Do what you really like and get the best!
But first survive : if you have UAS Do "nothing",if you stall on your damned flying computer please PUSH!
We do not have decision on our future (very less) : The other people decide! Have friends.Build your family too. Let your roots grow under your feet. Help chance.
"Aime, et fais ce que voudras":
Do what you really like and get the best!
But first survive : if you have UAS Do "nothing",if you stall on your damned flying computer please PUSH!
We do not have decision on our future (very less) : The other people decide! Have friends.Build your family too. Let your roots grow under your feet. Help chance.
"Aime, et fais ce que voudras":
just do something that you know you would enjoy. Considering you will be studying part time for 5 years plus, you don't want it to be a bore or a bind in a few years time. As for professional quaifications, most degrees just show you have the ability to study and are a record of attainment. Just how many lawyers have graduate law degrees - not many by my reckoning.
The degrees available in aviation management tend to be post grad qualifications and in my experience will probably disqualify you for an airline management post! (Read into that what you will!) They are like industry specific MBAs and there's a bit of a backlash against those type of qualifications at the moment.
Personally, I would do History and avoid like the plague something like accountancy. Having to get an already deferred assignment done on a topic such as stock control on depressing nightstop in a gloomy hotel may make you a suicide statistic!
As for ground posts - flying bores the bum off me now. I quite enjoy my 4 days in the office a month!
The degrees available in aviation management tend to be post grad qualifications and in my experience will probably disqualify you for an airline management post! (Read into that what you will!) They are like industry specific MBAs and there's a bit of a backlash against those type of qualifications at the moment.
Personally, I would do History and avoid like the plague something like accountancy. Having to get an already deferred assignment done on a topic such as stock control on depressing nightstop in a gloomy hotel may make you a suicide statistic!
As for ground posts - flying bores the bum off me now. I quite enjoy my 4 days in the office a month!
