ATC asked us to intercept a 10 mile Final.
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From: fl
You will probably never get that clearance again. In Portland Ore. the clearance was turn final at the confluence of the two rivers, cleared for the visual landing east arriving from the south. I have no idea how the button pushers could do that at a moments notice. It is quite easy if you are a real pilot not depending on automation. The button pushers would have to enter holding to make a waypoint, but that is their problem. We should all be better than that or find another profession.
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From: various places .....
LST 31,000 at 30 DME on a DME Arr in TJJ for R14
That's the trick. One of my regrets was not having a bid onto the Diesel .. spent too long on the Goose/Three-Holer and the Type went the way of the dodo, unfortunately. 733, likewise, had no trouble bettering 1nm/1000ft ...
much lower than 30 grand at 5 miles
To clarify the story, that wasn't 30 with 5 to run. Track miles probably ended up around 20-22 by the time we turned approaching the water .. very versatile girl the old lady when it came to getting down to thicker air. Unfortunately most of the other Electra stories probably ought not to be told in general company ...
That's the trick. One of my regrets was not having a bid onto the Diesel .. spent too long on the Goose/Three-Holer and the Type went the way of the dodo, unfortunately. 733, likewise, had no trouble bettering 1nm/1000ft ...
much lower than 30 grand at 5 miles
To clarify the story, that wasn't 30 with 5 to run. Track miles probably ended up around 20-22 by the time we turned approaching the water .. very versatile girl the old lady when it came to getting down to thicker air. Unfortunately most of the other Electra stories probably ought not to be told in general company ...
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From: fl
I hear you. Our 737 SJC approaches for noise abatement would have us all fired now with those high dives with spool ups and GS intercepts at 500 feet. That was a different time when flying was really fun. That is why I ended up flying to TGU in Honduras. Considered the most dangerous jet airliner airport in the world you could still have fun and be safe at the same time and still be legal because of special airport requirements. At least that is what a TV show of worlds 10 most dangerous airports said.
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From: various places .....
with those high dives with spool ups and GS intercepts at 500 feet
Can't say I like that sort of strategy .. and it would have had any of us hung, drawn and quartered at the Monday morning tea and bikkies meeting .. without the tea and bikkies.
Our preferred technique to get down quickly was to slow up at height, gear down, boards up on the jets (with due regard to any flap limitations), flaps to approach (with regard to the normal level restrictions on flap), idle thrust .. and then vary the descent profile with IAS.
Spin up routinely 1500ft on slope and speed in our operation.
.. and, if it turned to custard on the way down, we were never too proud to ask for an orbit although that was not often if the cognitive processes were on the ball.
Can't say I like that sort of strategy .. and it would have had any of us hung, drawn and quartered at the Monday morning tea and bikkies meeting .. without the tea and bikkies.
Our preferred technique to get down quickly was to slow up at height, gear down, boards up on the jets (with due regard to any flap limitations), flaps to approach (with regard to the normal level restrictions on flap), idle thrust .. and then vary the descent profile with IAS.
Spin up routinely 1500ft on slope and speed in our operation.
.. and, if it turned to custard on the way down, we were never too proud to ask for an orbit although that was not often if the cognitive processes were on the ball.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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From: UK
Originally Posted by JT
Our preferred technique to get down quickly was to slow up at height, gear down, boards up on the jets (with due regard to any flap limitations), flaps to approach (with regard to the normal level restrictions on flap), idle thrust .. and then vary the descent profile with IAS.
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From: In a far better place
TAWAG and see what happens, Hopefully it won't be a FUBAR approach. If one needs to rely on the automation, then as pointed out above, draw a 10 mile ring about the point of where the CFIT will take place and go for it.
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From: USA
I trained in the Portland area. I have a college degree.
'Uh..Portland Approach what is a 'confluence'?'
Better yet is when they tell you to turn at The Loyd Center.
'ahhha...Poitlind Aprooch...this is China Heavy 123, what is 'THE LOID CENTAR',
'Uh..Portland Approach what is a 'confluence'?'
Better yet is when they tell you to turn at The Loyd Center.
'ahhha...Poitlind Aprooch...this is China Heavy 123, what is 'THE LOID CENTAR',
PPRuNe Bashaholic
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From: The Peoples Alcoholic Republic of Jockistan
If it's in the UK, the it's probably all down to the fact that there is no standard position for a 'centre fix' in the UK. Some use 14.5 miles, some use 12, some use 10, some use less. As a result, we are NOT allowed to clear a pilot to his/hers centre fix, simply because we have no idea where it is.
To get round that, when we are willing and able (after co-ordination), we can send pilots to a generic centre fix, which is nominally 10NM. If you need more, or less, then say so when we clear you. It's not a big deal to position other traffic as a result if you need more or less miles on final. We do need to know though.
To get round that, when we are willing and able (after co-ordination), we can send pilots to a generic centre fix, which is nominally 10NM. If you need more, or less, then say so when we clear you. It's not a big deal to position other traffic as a result if you need more or less miles on final. We do need to know though.
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From: United Kingdom
Like so many discussions on here, they polarise into the two camps of the lovers of brain power and mental agility and the lovers of all things green and magenta. I am an Airbus pilot and I make it my business to find out every little nuance of how the FMGC works and what little tricks are out there to make the system do all the different things I could want at different stages of flight. That seems to me just common sense and professionalism, and I have no time whatsoever for the whining ex-Boeing pilots who are completely lost over stuff they should have picked up long ago and who just say the Airbus is rubbish. This tiny handful of negative aviators usually make a great play of 'airmanship' to cover up their professional inadequacies. It is totally unacceptable to me for a pilot to be on any aircraft for a reasonable period of time and just to be sat there having no idea what advanced functions exist and making no effort to find out.
There is, however, a strong case for ensuring that pilots do not lose the core skills of mental agility, common sense, genuine airmanship and the handling skills so important to safe flight. That again is not to speak against the more modern jets which do so much. It is to say that a professional pilot needs a range of skills that can be called upon in whatever circumstance he finds himself in. Complacency is a dangerous thing - whether over-reliance on computers or an inability to use the aircraft to its maximum potential through sheer ignorance. The truth rarely lies at the extremes of the argument - that is certainly the case here.
There is, however, a strong case for ensuring that pilots do not lose the core skills of mental agility, common sense, genuine airmanship and the handling skills so important to safe flight. That again is not to speak against the more modern jets which do so much. It is to say that a professional pilot needs a range of skills that can be called upon in whatever circumstance he finds himself in. Complacency is a dangerous thing - whether over-reliance on computers or an inability to use the aircraft to its maximum potential through sheer ignorance. The truth rarely lies at the extremes of the argument - that is certainly the case here.
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From: ...
I really have no idea what you are on about AdM especially the Ex-boeing comparison.
In general there is a time and a place for learning these things. I suggest that 3000ft AAL and about to start an approach is not that place nor time.
True there is hardly anything that can't be done through the FMGC, same applies to boeing FMS btw, and you have to know how these advanced features work. But you also need to realise that some of these advanced features are more about planning then short notice manipulation of the aircrafts flightpath. Why else do we have an FCU?
So my advice to the OP: sure build a circling approach with prescribed tracks or add a 10nm final point if you think that is what you will get. But do it in the cruise or a holding pattern. For short notice changes or when you really should stay heads-up use the FCU.
If ATC asks something you think is too complicated, tell them you are unable.
In general there is a time and a place for learning these things. I suggest that 3000ft AAL and about to start an approach is not that place nor time.
True there is hardly anything that can't be done through the FMGC, same applies to boeing FMS btw, and you have to know how these advanced features work. But you also need to realise that some of these advanced features are more about planning then short notice manipulation of the aircrafts flightpath. Why else do we have an FCU?
So my advice to the OP: sure build a circling approach with prescribed tracks or add a 10nm final point if you think that is what you will get. But do it in the cruise or a holding pattern. For short notice changes or when you really should stay heads-up use the FCU.
If ATC asks something you think is too complicated, tell them you are unable.
Last edited by 737Jock; 15th January 2013 at 11:02.
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From: Alaska, PNG, etc.
Originally Posted by aterpster
I can't answer that other than to relate the errors in the continental U.S. before they made the conversion.
On the coasts it was as little as a couple of feet.
In Kansas it was as large as 1,000 feet, or so, in longitude, but much less in latitude.
On the coasts it was as little as a couple of feet.
In Kansas it was as large as 1,000 feet, or so, in longitude, but much less in latitude.
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From: Alaska, PNG, etc.
Originally Posted by Alexander de Meerkat
Like so many discussions on here, they polarise into the two camps of the lovers of brain power and mental agility and the lovers of all things green and magenta. I am an Airbus pilot and I make it my business to find out every little nuance of how the FMGC works and what little tricks are out there to make the system do all the different things I could want at different stages of flight. That seems to me just common sense and professionalism, and I have no time whatsoever for the whining ex-Boeing pilots who are completely lost over stuff they should have picked up long ago and who just say the Airbus is rubbish. This tiny handful of negative aviators usually make a great play of 'airmanship' to cover up their professional inadequacies. It is totally unacceptable to me for a pilot to be on any aircraft for a reasonable period of time and just to be sat there having no idea what advanced functions exist and making no effort to find out.
You are way off base in assuming that not needing a magenta line is necessarily the same as not knowing how to use one.
