CVR/FDR recovery.
Thread Starter
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From: Styx Houseboat Park.
CVR/FDR recovery.
Guys, pardon the intrusion; not my usual stamping ground, but I have a question.
In Australia close to four years ago a Westwind ditched (lack of fuel) a few kilometres off a remote island in the Pacific. The aircraft was broken but, the rear fuselage section appears (to lay eyes) to be relatively intact. The aircraft pretty much ditched, split and sank in 'about' 45 meters of relatively warm water.
The 'authorities' for various reasons declined to retrieve the CVR/FDR. I have done as much research as I can but, I'm stuck. If the CVR/FDR are now recovered, would the data be recoverable and viable??.
In Australia close to four years ago a Westwind ditched (lack of fuel) a few kilometres off a remote island in the Pacific. The aircraft was broken but, the rear fuselage section appears (to lay eyes) to be relatively intact. The aircraft pretty much ditched, split and sank in 'about' 45 meters of relatively warm water.
The 'authorities' for various reasons declined to retrieve the CVR/FDR. I have done as much research as I can but, I'm stuck. If the CVR/FDR are now recovered, would the data be recoverable and viable??.
Last edited by Kharon; 10th November 2012 at 05:51. Reason: The years take their toll.
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Reading, UK
If the CVR/FDR are now recovered, would the data be recoverable and viable??.
In Australia close to four ago a Westwind ditched
Are we talking about this one: http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/3970107...-072_Final.pdf ?
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From: engineer at large
Video!
http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/782199/...underwater.mp4
CFR specs...has a 6 year underwater battery! http://www.l-3ar.com/PDF_Files/MKT047_FA2100CVDR.pdf
http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/782199/...underwater.mp4
CFR specs...has a 6 year underwater battery! http://www.l-3ar.com/PDF_Files/MKT047_FA2100CVDR.pdf
Last edited by FlightPathOBN; 10th November 2012 at 00:23.
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From: USA
This Westwind was equipped with a FDR?
I only ask because none of the Westwinds I've flown had one. (US registered) Does AUS require FDRs in 9 pax or less jets?
The Westwind CVR playbacks I've listened to were of much more recent vintage than 4 years and still the audio quality was dubious! But then these were old analog CVRs not modern digital units. Any idea what type was installed on the Westwind in question? I am doubtful about the likelihood of recovering useful data from an analog unit that's been submersed in warm saltwater for 4 years.
Best,
westhawk
I only ask because none of the Westwinds I've flown had one. (US registered) Does AUS require FDRs in 9 pax or less jets?
The Westwind CVR playbacks I've listened to were of much more recent vintage than 4 years and still the audio quality was dubious! But then these were old analog CVRs not modern digital units. Any idea what type was installed on the Westwind in question? I am doubtful about the likelihood of recovering useful data from an analog unit that's been submersed in warm saltwater for 4 years.
Best,
westhawk
Thread Starter
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From: Styx Houseboat Park.
Correct - 4 years - digital dysfunction. Yes, the report mentioned identifies the correct incident.
I believe the boxes were of the 'older' variety; I will check and try to find the name, rank and serial number of the animal concerned.
Cheers.
I believe the boxes were of the 'older' variety; I will check and try to find the name, rank and serial number of the animal concerned.
Cheers.
Last edited by Kharon; 10th November 2012 at 05:49.
Thread Starter
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From: Styx Houseboat Park.
Air Transport Safety Bureau. #AO-2009-072.
The aircraft was equipped with a model FA2100 solid-state cockpit voice recorder (CVR) and a flight data recorder (FDR). Both units were installed in the aircraft’s tailcone.
The CVR recorded the previous 120 minutes of in-cockpit audio information based on an endless-loop principle. The recorded information included audio inputs from the pilots’ headsets and from the ‘cockpit area microphone’ that was installed in the centre of the glare shield. Each input was stored on separate channels in the CVR’s solid-state storage device.
The wreckage was in 48 m of water in open sea, which required specialist divers and major support equipment from mainland Australia to carry out any attempt to recover the FDR and CVR. In comparison with the recovery risk, the availability and quality of the information provided by the flight crew, medical staff and passengers
The CVR recorded the previous 120 minutes of in-cockpit audio information based on an endless-loop principle. The recorded information included audio inputs from the pilots’ headsets and from the ‘cockpit area microphone’ that was installed in the centre of the glare shield. Each input was stored on separate channels in the CVR’s solid-state storage device.
The wreckage was in 48 m of water in open sea, which required specialist divers and major support equipment from mainland Australia to carry out any attempt to recover the FDR and CVR. In comparison with the recovery risk, the availability and quality of the information provided by the flight crew, medical staff and passengers
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From: Somewhere over the rainbow
DaveReidUK,
Unfortunately this accident has caused a real stink up down here in AUS. There is currently a government (senate) inquiry into the report, and its deficiencies.
The ATSB (investigator) and CASA (regulator) are currently being grilled over various proceedings - the ATSB has even admitted failings.
The report contained a very large number of factual errors that have been discovered, and its getting to the point that everyone would like to know what actually happened!
The Captain of the aircraft has been roundly blamed for the accident, despite a previous investigation showing many systemic failings on the operator's side. (there is a long thread in the Dunnunda part if you want to know more). There's also some very dubious assertions about the fuel state, what discussions they had, and fuel planning.
Without the recorder, we'll never really know I think!
Unfortunately this accident has caused a real stink up down here in AUS. There is currently a government (senate) inquiry into the report, and its deficiencies.
The ATSB (investigator) and CASA (regulator) are currently being grilled over various proceedings - the ATSB has even admitted failings.
The report contained a very large number of factual errors that have been discovered, and its getting to the point that everyone would like to know what actually happened!
The Captain of the aircraft has been roundly blamed for the accident, despite a previous investigation showing many systemic failings on the operator's side. (there is a long thread in the Dunnunda part if you want to know more). There's also some very dubious assertions about the fuel state, what discussions they had, and fuel planning.
Without the recorder, we'll never really know I think!
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From: The Sandpit
From FlightPathOBN
I think you'll find this means the battery should be replaced every 6 years. Not that it will ping for 6 years!
If they were SSFDR/SSCVR then there's no reason to suppose the data won't be readable. Assuming they can be found, as the ULB pingers will be long spent.
CFR specs...has a 6 year underwater battery!
If they were SSFDR/SSCVR then there's no reason to suppose the data won't be readable. Assuming they can be found, as the ULB pingers will be long spent.
Joined: Jul 2008
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From: Skating away on the thin ice of a new day.
Kharon, I have been following the thread at Dunnunda for some time. I wish you and the other guys there the very best in your efforts to uncover the truth and to expose any alleged cover up or negligence. Considering the Air France prang location this should be a doddle with any concerted effort . 45 metres is deep and Norfolk is some distance away but far from insurmountable. 4 years is long time to survive in salt water though. Not sure how well those things are sealed. It is about 5.5 atmospheres at that depth.
Have you them directly asked about survivability?
Aviation Recorders
100 Cattlemen Road
Sarasota, Florida 34232 U.S.A.
Tel: 941-371-0811 Fax: 941-377-5591
Website: L-3 Communications Aviation Recorders
Documents: L-3 Aviation Recorders Publications Home Page
Have you them directly asked about survivability?
Aviation Recorders
100 Cattlemen Road
Sarasota, Florida 34232 U.S.A.
Tel: 941-371-0811 Fax: 941-377-5591
Website: L-3 Communications Aviation Recorders
Documents: L-3 Aviation Recorders Publications Home Page
Last edited by ampclamp; 11th November 2012 at 10:11.
