A320 Eng 2 hung start and manual eng start. Ques.
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A320 Eng 2 hung start and manual eng start. Ques.
Suppose engine 2 got a hung start, dry cranking was initiated, and ECAM action was engine master 2 OFF.
After that, does mode selector go to normal? Now I still have to read the supp procedure before I can start doing it, so that's why I ask if I can leave it on ignition or does it go to normal. (ECAM just says master 2 off)
Also. If I got a hung start on eng 2, does this mean eng 1 has to also be started by manual start or..?
Thanks guys
After that, does mode selector go to normal? Now I still have to read the supp procedure before I can start doing it, so that's why I ask if I can leave it on ignition or does it go to normal. (ECAM just says master 2 off)
Also. If I got a hung start on eng 2, does this mean eng 1 has to also be started by manual start or..?
Thanks guys
Last edited by meatlover; 5th Oct 2012 at 20:13.
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Not an expert but my take on this would be if you know you going to attempt a manual start then leave it at IGN.
If return to gate, turn it to NORM (
).
Depends what caused the hung start on ENG 2 i think. My take is you do not have to.
If return to gate, turn it to NORM (
).
Also. If I got a hung start on eng 2, does this mean eng 1 has to also be started by manual start or..?
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Hung start
Technically, if you are going to do a manual start you could leave it in 'IGN' but why would you want to?
If you are going to initiate a manual start, then that is not a memory procedure so you would then have to access the relevent section in the FCOM.
If you then follow the manual start procedure /checklist you would be out of sync with the checklist if you had left it in 'IGN'.
There is no reason why you cannot start one manually and the other automatically. It depends on what caused the hung start in the first place.
If you are going to initiate a manual start, then that is not a memory procedure so you would then have to access the relevent section in the FCOM.
If you then follow the manual start procedure /checklist you would be out of sync with the checklist if you had left it in 'IGN'.
There is no reason why you cannot start one manually and the other automatically. It depends on what caused the hung start in the first place.
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Abacus,
Well how do I know exactly what did cause it?
Say tailwind was greater than 10 knots. I assume I'd do manual on both then?
Well there could be a number of reasons where a manual start MAY be preferable. Your tailwind example is one, also low APU or Ground Air bleed pressure is another. I have also experienced that in hot/high airfield conditions. Offloading the hydraulics and gennies can help with poor start conditions...make sure you are well chocked or away from the gate/obstructions etc, if you are relying on the Park Brake if you go down that route...but I digress.
In that case you could start one engine manually, then the other in auto start as the engine bleed in those circumstances generally provides sufficient bleed pressure for a cross bleed start.
Generally the Airbus, both A320 family and A330 in my experience are very reliable, and forgiving, of just about all scenarios, but occasionally you get the odd problem.
Well how do I know exactly what did cause it?
Say tailwind was greater than 10 knots. I assume I'd do manual on both then?
Well there could be a number of reasons where a manual start MAY be preferable. Your tailwind example is one, also low APU or Ground Air bleed pressure is another. I have also experienced that in hot/high airfield conditions. Offloading the hydraulics and gennies can help with poor start conditions...make sure you are well chocked or away from the gate/obstructions etc, if you are relying on the Park Brake if you go down that route...but I digress.
In that case you could start one engine manually, then the other in auto start as the engine bleed in those circumstances generally provides sufficient bleed pressure for a cross bleed start.
Generally the Airbus, both A320 family and A330 in my experience are very reliable, and forgiving, of just about all scenarios, but occasionally you get the odd problem.
Last edited by Abacus; 6th Oct 2012 at 13:09.
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Abacus I agree with your comments about reliability. I have probably misunderstood your comment here however;
Placing the ENG START selector in IGN START will bring up the ENG ECAM page, hence it is in the beginning of the manual start procedure. Again, sorry if I misunderstood your statement.
Technically, if you are going to do a manual start you could leave it in 'IGN' but why would you want to?
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Squawk7600 -Placing the ENG START selector in IGN START will bring up the ENG ECAM page, hence it is in the beginning of the manual start procedure. Again, sorry if I misunderstood your statement.
qwsa - FCOM PRO-SUP-70 manual engine start:
ENG MODE selector..............NORM THEN IGN
So you can leave eng mode sel in ign position after eng master off.
Correct! The point I am trying to make is that if you are now going to do a manual start instead of an automatic start this should be accomplished using the 'Manual Start' checklist. If you leave the Start Sel in 'IGN' which you could do, as the Start Page remains displayed, you are though jumping ahead of the checklist, which is not what Airbus advocates!
I know that the manual start sequence is very straightforward, (IIRC the normal start sequence of a CFM engine on the classic 737, which was a memory item, is pretty much the same as the manual start sequence on the A320, which isn't)! So on the A320 a manual start is not a normal procedure and therefore should be accomplished by the appropriate checklist!
(Apologies if my memory of the 737 start procedure is a little rusty....it was 20 years ago since I last flew it!)
qwsa - FCOM PRO-SUP-70 manual engine start:
ENG MODE selector..............NORM THEN IGN
So you can leave eng mode sel in ign position after eng master off.
Correct! The point I am trying to make is that if you are now going to do a manual start instead of an automatic start this should be accomplished using the 'Manual Start' checklist. If you leave the Start Sel in 'IGN' which you could do, as the Start Page remains displayed, you are though jumping ahead of the checklist, which is not what Airbus advocates!
I know that the manual start sequence is very straightforward, (IIRC the normal start sequence of a CFM engine on the classic 737, which was a memory item, is pretty much the same as the manual start sequence on the A320, which isn't)! So on the A320 a manual start is not a normal procedure and therefore should be accomplished by the appropriate checklist!
(Apologies if my memory of the 737 start procedure is a little rusty....it was 20 years ago since I last flew it!)
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Abacus, sorry I don't follow what you're saying here. In practice I've found in situations such as this by the time everyone dicks around, pulls out the checklist, discusses what we're going to do, negotiates the delay with ATC etc etc, often the ENG page has dropped off. That's one reason why the checklist is written the way it is ie it reads ENG START selector .... NORM THEN IGN START.
The checklist is not out of sequence by leaving it in IGN before commencing the checklist, indeed that's the position it will possibly already be in. For example, in the case it's determined during the start phase that a manual start will be required, the Engine Start Selector will be in IGN START, the checklist calls for the selector to be returned back to NORM then placed in IGN START. In the case where a manual start is already determined as required before the start phase has commenced, the Engine Start Selector will be in NORM. Obviously the checklist remains the same, so it reads Engine Start Selector NORM (which it already is) THEN IGN START.
qwsa is absolutely correct, and Airbus considered both scenarios when writing the Manual Start checklist the way it's written. Contrast that to the normal start procedures, where the Automatic Engine Start sequence states, ENG START selector ..... IGN START ie the (NORM THEN is not part of the sequence as the selector is always in NORM to commence). It's perfectly acceptable to go into the manual start checklist with the Engine Start selector in either position, and which it will be in is determined by what generated the manual start requirement.
The checklist is not out of sequence by leaving it in IGN before commencing the checklist, indeed that's the position it will possibly already be in. For example, in the case it's determined during the start phase that a manual start will be required, the Engine Start Selector will be in IGN START, the checklist calls for the selector to be returned back to NORM then placed in IGN START. In the case where a manual start is already determined as required before the start phase has commenced, the Engine Start Selector will be in NORM. Obviously the checklist remains the same, so it reads Engine Start Selector NORM (which it already is) THEN IGN START.
qwsa is absolutely correct, and Airbus considered both scenarios when writing the Manual Start checklist the way it's written. Contrast that to the normal start procedures, where the Automatic Engine Start sequence states, ENG START selector ..... IGN START ie the (NORM THEN is not part of the sequence as the selector is always in NORM to commence). It's perfectly acceptable to go into the manual start checklist with the Engine Start selector in either position, and which it will be in is determined by what generated the manual start requirement.
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CRANK with MASTER still on
If in error we perform a dry crank using manual start and ENG MODE selector at crank but with the master still left on does the system cut off fuel or will it flow?
