737 Unpowered Taxi
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737 Unpowered Taxi
I recently flew with a captain who decided to kill engine 2 after vacating (we used idle reverse) and that's nothing out of the ordinary.
It's our policy not to start the APU at certain airports in 'nice' conditions and usually we kill #1 when ground power has been connected.
But this chap decided to kill #1 as we turned into the gate and were still taxying at ~ 8 knots without the APU online.
Do you think this is dangerous? In my book, it's a bad habbit and could be embarassing if you run out of momentum a few meters short. But the Accu is still available for braking and AC power is not necessarily required, right?
What are your thoughts?
It's our policy not to start the APU at certain airports in 'nice' conditions and usually we kill #1 when ground power has been connected.
But this chap decided to kill #1 as we turned into the gate and were still taxying at ~ 8 knots without the APU online.
Do you think this is dangerous? In my book, it's a bad habbit and could be embarassing if you run out of momentum a few meters short. But the Accu is still available for braking and AC power is not necessarily required, right?
What are your thoughts?
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A "Superior Pilot" is one who uses his "Superior" judgement, to avoid situations which may require him to demonstrate his "Superior" skill.
Sometimes in life one can be too smart for ones own good.
Does he think he impresses anyone
they certainly will be when he coasts to a stop short of the stop-line & has to either start an engine/wait for a tug to arrive in the proper position 
It would be uncharitable of me to be judgemental, . . . . but, I will hazard a guess that he is perhaps not someone that one would relish too many nightstops with. . . . or is it simpler to just say "tosser" ?
Sometimes in life one can be too smart for ones own good.
Does he think he impresses anyone
they certainly will be when he coasts to a stop short of the stop-line & has to either start an engine/wait for a tug to arrive in the proper position It would be uncharitable of me to be judgemental, . . . . but, I will hazard a guess that he is perhaps not someone that one would relish too many nightstops with. . . . or is it simpler to just say "tosser" ?
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I'd be tempted to lightly hold the brakes and watch the look on his face as the airplane stops short
Otherwise, ask him if he picked up that move watching Top Gun. I first saw this being done when I was learning how to fly and my instructor did it. He thought it was cool. I thought it was stupid and amateur. Perhaps my old instructor is now your Captain?
Otherwise, ask him if he picked up that move watching Top Gun. I first saw this being done when I was learning how to fly and my instructor did it. He thought it was cool. I thought it was stupid and amateur. Perhaps my old instructor is now your Captain?
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Relating to this yesterday I was part of a crew who saw an Air France 320 on stand at LHR. He only had no.1 eng on and had a struggle against the gradient of the stand, looked a bit foolish restarting the no.2 for the last 2m of stand left :P
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I guess I have seen it all. I saw someone do this with an FAA inspector on board our DC9 and he came right up to the ''block' and parked beautifully every time he did it. Some guys are good, some are lucky...you choose.
Now, I've also seen Robert A. Bob Hoover take his plane, while flying mind you, shut down both engines, feather the props, do a LOOP at low altitude, come in for a great landing, rocking back and forth between the main landing gear and taxi (unpowered) right up to the governor's reviewing stand. He always got a giant round of applause. He never missed.
someday you might be confident and good enough to do what your captain did...but you will probably be smart enough to not do it!!!!!
I will say this...I think all engine should be running for all movement. Our company does authorize ONE engine taxi off the gate to the runway for takeoff...but I saw this happen once. One guy used sooooo much breakaway thrust, he kicked up a railroad tie blocking off a taxiway and that thing went flying 50' in the air and 300 feet horizontally. I reported it to the chief pilot, who investigated, found out I was right...and still didn't switch back to two engine taxi. money, fuel price etc.
Now, I've also seen Robert A. Bob Hoover take his plane, while flying mind you, shut down both engines, feather the props, do a LOOP at low altitude, come in for a great landing, rocking back and forth between the main landing gear and taxi (unpowered) right up to the governor's reviewing stand. He always got a giant round of applause. He never missed.
someday you might be confident and good enough to do what your captain did...but you will probably be smart enough to not do it!!!!!
I will say this...I think all engine should be running for all movement. Our company does authorize ONE engine taxi off the gate to the runway for takeoff...but I saw this happen once. One guy used sooooo much breakaway thrust, he kicked up a railroad tie blocking off a taxiway and that thing went flying 50' in the air and 300 feet horizontally. I reported it to the chief pilot, who investigated, found out I was right...and still didn't switch back to two engine taxi. money, fuel price etc.
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Aw, cmmon! Your captain didn't endanger anyone. He only opened himself up for personal embarassment (start an engine, call for tug). I suspect that he is ex-military and needs an occasional challenge (when is the last time you challenged your skills?).
Stop bitching and learn from him.
Maybe, someday, he'll let you turn off the AP (unless the thought makes you want to look for a new career!)
Stop bitching and learn from him.
Maybe, someday, he'll let you turn off the AP (unless the thought makes you want to look for a new career!)
Last edited by Crabman; 23rd May 2012 at 23:31.
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Bob Hoover was a smart and skilled pilot, but I am sure his airmanship would have told him to absolutely refuse to take any chances with passengers on board (paying punters just wanting to go from A to B).
I believe airmanship should come before skills. With good airmanship, you can prevent getting into corners where good/excellent/exceptional skills would be required. With average/good/above average skills, you can still (more often than not)
it up, because of poor judgment, poor planning, well, you get the picture.
Wanna be a flying ace? Go rent an Extra 300 in a flying club and knock yourself out, flying passengers for hire is another business.
I believe airmanship should come before skills. With good airmanship, you can prevent getting into corners where good/excellent/exceptional skills would be required. With average/good/above average skills, you can still (more often than not)
it up, because of poor judgment, poor planning, well, you get the picture.Wanna be a flying ace? Go rent an Extra 300 in a flying club and knock yourself out, flying passengers for hire is another business.
Bottums Up
Talk about leaving oneself open for trouble!
CAPTAIN, brake!
Captain, brake harder!
I said BRAKE!!!!
CAPTAIN, brake!
Captain, brake harder!
I said BRAKE!!!!
Last edited by Capt Claret; 24th May 2012 at 01:58.
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Hi to you "gorter".....
In post #4 you referred to 'inhibited standby power'...
I'm real curious about that one, got any more info...
As far as I am aware, the ONLY way to inhibit Standby Power is to turn the overhead P5 switch to OFF.
Otherwise, it WILL operate, flight or ground!
In post #4 you referred to 'inhibited standby power'...
I'm real curious about that one, got any more info...
As far as I am aware, the ONLY way to inhibit Standby Power is to turn the overhead P5 switch to OFF.
Otherwise, it WILL operate, flight or ground!
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Depends if it's the classic or the NG. The NG's sby pwr system is not inhibited by the air/gnd switch (which is really good if you have a dual GEN fail on t/o )
As for the skipper turning off both engines before reaching the gate I can only agree that it is utterly stupid. As an F/O I only intervene should the other guy attempt to do something that is clearly unsafe. Shutting down both engines before reaching the gate is borderline (you will still be able to stop by simply braking should anything else happen) so I would let it slide. The company employes the captain and it is ultimately up to him how to run the show... I can't be arsed trying to teach a captain how to fly/taxi the aircraft. That is not my job. As long as it's not unsafe, I'm a happy camper
)As for the skipper turning off both engines before reaching the gate I can only agree that it is utterly stupid. As an F/O I only intervene should the other guy attempt to do something that is clearly unsafe. Shutting down both engines before reaching the gate is borderline (you will still be able to stop by simply braking should anything else happen) so I would let it slide. The company employes the captain and it is ultimately up to him how to run the show... I can't be arsed trying to teach a captain how to fly/taxi the aircraft. That is not my job. As long as it's not unsafe, I'm a happy camper
Last edited by LeftHeadingNorth; 24th May 2012 at 09:29.
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Those pics are of a Mesaba RJ-85. The mechanics (no pilots on board) had attempted a maintenance check. They didn't finish the checklist and forgot to reset some, CBs and that disabled the brakes. Last I knew, that frame can be found at KMEM as a CFR trainer.
Of course, it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Of course, it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
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Hi,
thanks all for the feedback.
Yes, I'm pretty new on type. So that has surely to do with me posting this question on an open forum.
It's interesting reading your thoughts. I share the same thought as most of you, ie it's not dangerous just foolish (I mean, common, how many kilos fuel are you saving by doing this??)
As to the risks: tailpipe fire - well to be honest, shutting down at gate without APU won't give you bleed air either so it's just a matter of 10-15 seconds where you'd be on fire. Also, is this really a realistic threat?
The aircraft involved was a classic, so it got pretty dark when gen1 tripped.
@Crab: I'm not going to comment too much, except I'm pretty confident flying manual, thank you very much. I started off flying gliders, so no AP - and pretty much every taxi was unpowered...
BNG
thanks all for the feedback.
Yes, I'm pretty new on type. So that has surely to do with me posting this question on an open forum.
It's interesting reading your thoughts. I share the same thought as most of you, ie it's not dangerous just foolish (I mean, common, how many kilos fuel are you saving by doing this??)
As to the risks: tailpipe fire - well to be honest, shutting down at gate without APU won't give you bleed air either so it's just a matter of 10-15 seconds where you'd be on fire. Also, is this really a realistic threat?
The aircraft involved was a classic, so it got pretty dark when gen1 tripped.
@Crab: I'm not going to comment too much, except I'm pretty confident flying manual, thank you very much. I started off flying gliders, so no AP - and pretty much every taxi was unpowered...
BNG
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The risk of tailpipe fire is low but not zero so you'll look like rather foolish. why endanger your pax, crew and aircraft integrity if you have one that was preventable?