Slots and delays in Mainland China
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Slots and delays in Mainland China
After a search on the forums, and try to google more info, I have yet to find any reliable documentation for the definition of delays and departure (ATC) slots in China.
I has to be something different from CFMU in Europe, or the US model. Meaning if you're given a slot time (CTOT) in Europe, it's in fact a bracket of time (+10/-5 min). Seems not to be the case here, as an example I was given a slot at 0612, and at 0612 we were exactly 300 meters to the departure threshold, on the taxiway, when ATC says that we are missing our slot, and now there is an unspecified delay???
I sat in disbelief as ATC annonced later than the new departure would be in 35 minutes... saying "I" because coming from outside China, I was the only one to be surprised -I mean speachless- as the rest of the crew, Chinese, showed not hint of surprise, actually sitting there as if everything was so usual...which it probably is.
I am sure some other expats have the same kind of story? Anywhere to read the actual Chinese slot "system", if there is such a thing?
Flex
I has to be something different from CFMU in Europe, or the US model. Meaning if you're given a slot time (CTOT) in Europe, it's in fact a bracket of time (+10/-5 min). Seems not to be the case here, as an example I was given a slot at 0612, and at 0612 we were exactly 300 meters to the departure threshold, on the taxiway, when ATC says that we are missing our slot, and now there is an unspecified delay???
I sat in disbelief as ATC annonced later than the new departure would be in 35 minutes... saying "I" because coming from outside China, I was the only one to be surprised -I mean speachless- as the rest of the crew, Chinese, showed not hint of surprise, actually sitting there as if everything was so usual...which it probably is.
I am sure some other expats have the same kind of story? Anywhere to read the actual Chinese slot "system", if there is such a thing?
Flex
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Great, I had made ample provisions to be on time, but the pushback took 3 full minutes to move...
Just to finish the story, the rest of the flight was increase cruise speed/decrease cruise speed at least 5 times...so much for a "well regulated slot"!
I guess more surprises will be around the corner!
Just to finish the story, the rest of the flight was increase cruise speed/decrease cruise speed at least 5 times...so much for a "well regulated slot"!
I guess more surprises will be around the corner!
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Flown there for four years. This is the way it is.Whether it is caused by weather or by "military activity", there is nothing you can do .I always tried at least not to have the pax's on board , otherwise the script was always the same: after one + hour paxs gets enough , wants to go home ...always 10 minutes away from your slot.
During flight you were lucky with the speeds change. I have got holdings during climb out of departure airport , while still more than 3 hours away from your destination. Eventually got pulled out off the airway to a 40 minutes holding pattern due to "flow control" at your destination.
But I must admit it was very interesting flying in there. I do not regret at all.
Enjoy your "flow controls" . Buy an Ipad and load it with plenty of movies to get prepared for the summer. Flow controls due to really bad weather tend to be quite long. You might be able to watch one or two full movies before you can get airborne, pause from time to time to make a PA to the paxs...
Cheers....
During flight you were lucky with the speeds change. I have got holdings during climb out of departure airport , while still more than 3 hours away from your destination. Eventually got pulled out off the airway to a 40 minutes holding pattern due to "flow control" at your destination.
But I must admit it was very interesting flying in there. I do not regret at all.
Enjoy your "flow controls" . Buy an Ipad and load it with plenty of movies to get prepared for the summer. Flow controls due to really bad weather tend to be quite long. You might be able to watch one or two full movies before you can get airborne, pause from time to time to make a PA to the paxs...
Cheers....
This is the way it is.
Cue the safe but high speed taxi-out
, and then of course the inevitable rollocking from ATC: " expedite taxi or you'll miss your take-off time....."....
...a classic case of "wait, now hurry up"We made it...just
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Thanks Wiggy,
It must be my poor chinglish, I did not pick the cue, ATC said on the taxiway "no delay", which I took for the slot being cancelled, therefore we would have no delays... never said "expedite", or "hurry up" or "you will loose you slot". Whatever the case, if you hit 12kt in a turn or 27kt in a straight line, the airline will show you the curly finger...they read everything from the aircraft's snitch box.
Anyways, they seem to have a fine art at throwing any good, proper planning out the window! It's gonna be fun years ahead.
" expedite taxi or you'll miss your take-off time.....".... ...a classic case of "wait, now hurry up"
Anyways, they seem to have a fine art at throwing any good, proper planning out the window! It's gonna be fun years ahead.
It is not wise for the Christian white
To hustle the Asian brown;
For the Christian riles
And the Asian smiles
And weareth the Christian down.
At the end of the fight
Lies a tombstone white
With the name of the late deceased;
And the epitaph drear,
A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East.
Rudyard Kipling. As true now as when he wrote these lines.
Go with the flow!
To hustle the Asian brown;
For the Christian riles
And the Asian smiles
And weareth the Christian down.
At the end of the fight
Lies a tombstone white
With the name of the late deceased;
And the epitaph drear,
A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East.
Rudyard Kipling. As true now as when he wrote these lines.
Go with the flow!
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Stilton,
The point is there is no harm if you do 30 knots on a straight taxiway intead of 27, nor if you have 13 or 14 kt in a wide bend, but since it is a punishing policy, so I ain't even pushing close to these numbers.
I am not talking about taking a tight turn on the taxiway at full throttle.
If you think 27 kt is fast, have a look at the Ryanair taxi speed, it'll make you heart jump!
The point is there is no harm if you do 30 knots on a straight taxiway intead of 27, nor if you have 13 or 14 kt in a wide bend, but since it is a punishing policy, so I ain't even pushing close to these numbers.
I am not talking about taking a tight turn on the taxiway at full throttle.
If you think 27 kt is fast, have a look at the Ryanair taxi speed, it'll make you heart jump!
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All these purposely-designed AWC and PB delays & long lines
for TO doesn't bother me in China. What really pisses me off
the planet is when bloody ATC gives priority to the locals for
TO while you've been sitting at the farthest holding point for
an hour or more. PEK and CAN are the worst I've encountered
so far. PUD and XMN are coming up fast.
And its not just once I've been forced to return to the deicing
station after exceeding holdover all because of this preference
for locals bull****.
for TO doesn't bother me in China. What really pisses me off
the planet is when bloody ATC gives priority to the locals for
TO while you've been sitting at the farthest holding point for
an hour or more. PEK and CAN are the worst I've encountered
so far. PUD and XMN are coming up fast.
And its not just once I've been forced to return to the deicing
station after exceeding holdover all because of this preference
for locals bull****.
We are 'limited' to 20 knots for taxi. Understand some operators go faster just has never seemed like a great idea to me.
You are building up a lot of heat in the Tyres and Brakes that could be problematic in the event of a subsequent reject.
Not to mention how long it will take you to stop in a hurry if needed.
You are building up a lot of heat in the Tyres and Brakes that could be problematic in the event of a subsequent reject.
Not to mention how long it will take you to stop in a hurry if needed.
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You guys talking about taxi speeds have obviously never seen Southwest Airlines taxi here in the US. Last time I had to hold short for them on the taxiway, I couldn't help but key the mic and say "V1".
