Proper jet landing technique
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Proper jet landing technique
Which is the correct jet landing technique...Is it:
Vref at 50ft over threshold, power to idle, let the speed bleed in flare
or
Vref +10 to Vref at 50ft over threshold, power reduced, land but never below Vref.
Is there some officially prescribed procedure to which someone can point me to ?
My quest is based on reading an article recently about a/c brakes and how often pilots wear out tires and brakes by practicing wrong landing technique. For example brakes on Cessna Citation CE560 should last for 750 landings and actual average is only half of that. So author of this article recommends one of the above mentioned techniques. Yet, reducing speed below Vref during flare is considered a Cardinal Sin by others. What say you....?
Vref at 50ft over threshold, power to idle, let the speed bleed in flare
or
Vref +10 to Vref at 50ft over threshold, power reduced, land but never below Vref.
Is there some officially prescribed procedure to which someone can point me to ?
My quest is based on reading an article recently about a/c brakes and how often pilots wear out tires and brakes by practicing wrong landing technique. For example brakes on Cessna Citation CE560 should last for 750 landings and actual average is only half of that. So author of this article recommends one of the above mentioned techniques. Yet, reducing speed below Vref during flare is considered a Cardinal Sin by others. What say you....?
The A330 manual says that if you fly an Approach at Vapp ( VRef ) then cross the threshold at 50', Flare at 40' ( 2 to 3 deg nose up ) and then smoothly close the Thrust Levers you will lose around 5 kts during the flare manoeuvre. All quite ok.
It goes on to say:-
FACTORS AFFECTING LANDING DISTANCE
The field length requirements are contained in the Landing Performance section of FCOM 2. The landing distance margin is reduced if the correct landing technique is not used. Factors that affect stopping distance include:
• Height and speed over the threshold
• Glideslope angle
• Landing flare technique
• Delay in lowering the nose onto the runway
• Improper use of available deceleration devices
• Runway conditions (discussed in adverse weather)
Height of the aircraft over the runway threshold has a significant effect on total landing distance. For example, on a 3° glide path, passing over the runway threshold at 100 ft rather than 50 ft could increase the total landing distance by approximately 300 m/950 ft. This is due to the length of runway used before the aircraft touches down.
A 5 kt speed increment on VAPP will result in a 5% increase to the distance extracted from the 'Landing Distance with Autobrake' table in the QRH.
A prolonged period of level flight above the runway prior to touchdown must be avoided as it uses a significant amount of the runway length available. Land the aircraft as near to the normal touchdown point as possible. Deceleration on the runway is approximately three times greater than in the air.
The minimum stopping distance is achieved by applying maximum manual antiskid braking with maximum reverse thrust selected and ground spoilers fully deployed.
It goes on to say:-
FACTORS AFFECTING LANDING DISTANCE
The field length requirements are contained in the Landing Performance section of FCOM 2. The landing distance margin is reduced if the correct landing technique is not used. Factors that affect stopping distance include:
• Height and speed over the threshold
• Glideslope angle
• Landing flare technique
• Delay in lowering the nose onto the runway
• Improper use of available deceleration devices
• Runway conditions (discussed in adverse weather)
Height of the aircraft over the runway threshold has a significant effect on total landing distance. For example, on a 3° glide path, passing over the runway threshold at 100 ft rather than 50 ft could increase the total landing distance by approximately 300 m/950 ft. This is due to the length of runway used before the aircraft touches down.
A 5 kt speed increment on VAPP will result in a 5% increase to the distance extracted from the 'Landing Distance with Autobrake' table in the QRH.
A prolonged period of level flight above the runway prior to touchdown must be avoided as it uses a significant amount of the runway length available. Land the aircraft as near to the normal touchdown point as possible. Deceleration on the runway is approximately three times greater than in the air.
The minimum stopping distance is achieved by applying maximum manual antiskid braking with maximum reverse thrust selected and ground spoilers fully deployed.
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Yet, reducing speed below Vref during flare is considered a Cardinal Sin by others
On flare Vref = 1.3 or more Vstall, while on Take Off V2 = 1.2 or more Vstall, and yet most of time you should rotate and reach V2 in the air....
PS
The best landing "technique" is exactly opposite to ANY normal Take off
I suspect you won't get a clear answer from many people on jet landing technique on Pprune, hence the references to the FCTM and wooly 'it depends' responses. Reason: as soon as anybody posts their technique someone with vastly more experience or perceived skill will tell them they're wrong. 
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Don't think that is the main reason, although there is quite a bit of truth in there. We have discussed type specific landing techniques in the past, so it does happen. But as many have said it is type specific. The landing technique for an A380 won't help on a mustang and vice versa.
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I suspect you won't get a clear answer from many people on jet landing technique on PPRuNe, hence the references to the FCTM and wooly 'it depends' responses. Reason: as soon as anybody posts their technique someone with vastly more experience or perceived skill will tell them they're wrong.
Yep, 30 years of landing Big Jets and I haven't done it right yet. I Haven't broke one, bent one or deviated much from the runway centre line after a few thousand landings, but still I have no idea what I'm doing :roll eyes:
BTW…read the Cross-wind section from your PPL manual and do it pretty much the same way. Then - don't let the secret out - but that's what the FCOM says too.
Assuming no gusts, forget about Vref for a start.
1/Do everything in your power to nail Vapp and the glideslope down to 20ft.
2/ Forget about speeds and fly the machine onto the runway while reducing the pwer to idle.
3/Go to the bar.(or in your case, ask your mum when dinner will be ready).
1/Do everything in your power to nail Vapp and the glideslope down to 20ft.
2/ Forget about speeds and fly the machine onto the runway while reducing the pwer to idle.
3/Go to the bar.(or in your case, ask your mum when dinner will be ready).
Wow Framer what are you flying with that technique? An FA/18 onto a Carrier???
The FCOM I quoted above is quite specific on the "correct technique" straight from Airbus and the same for the 777. It's not Rocket science or the Space shuttle so be like Nike and "just do it" .
The FCOM I quoted above is quite specific on the "correct technique" straight from Airbus and the same for the 777. It's not Rocket science or the Space shuttle so be like Nike and "just do it" .
Universal technique
Try this:
Fly Vapp plus additives down to the runway,when the touchdown target disappears under the nose flare enough to reduce sink to almost zero. After 20k+ found it works for me on any jet, CE500 to 747
Fly Vapp plus additives down to the runway,when the touchdown target disappears under the nose flare enough to reduce sink to almost zero. After 20k+ found it works for me on any jet, CE500 to 747
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@nitpicker what you quoted above was mainly factors affecting landing distance, which is not really a landing technique. The few points paraphrased above that by you might work for a somewhat heavy jet, but not for a light one. Starting a flare at 40ft is extremely early on smaller jets and way too early on light jets.
Besides, i read framer reply pretty much the same as your wise advise to "just do it", plus an added advise based on the known personality of SSG.
Besides, i read framer reply pretty much the same as your wise advise to "just do it", plus an added advise based on the known personality of SSG.
Yes I did mention it was for the A330 and similar Boeing Jets, also I did say I don't know about light Jets. I personally Flare around 20' in the 330 and did so in the 777 as well after I had more experience on each type.
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16 years flying, pistons, turboprops, medium jets (A320), I don't remember ONCE looking at my speed past the threshold.
I try to fly at Vapp/Vref stable until I hear 30/40 feet, thrust idle, flare and let it sit in the TDZ.
I try to fly at Vapp/Vref stable until I hear 30/40 feet, thrust idle, flare and let it sit in the TDZ.
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The remark about brakes not holding long enough is very clear to me. Most pilots I've ever seen on different types flew with too much speed reserve, too much head/crosswind correction and keeping power/thrust for too long. This increases landing distance by a great margin. The inproper technique doesn't end there, since a big group of pilots doesn't have a concept about proper braking technique and use of reversers.
Other than that, I agree that it's type specific. The only common values are:
at 50ft starts your landing
you have to be over the threshold.
you should have Vref (or Vapp or whatever your manufactor calls it)
flare: reducing vertical speed and reducing power/thrust should go hand in hand (there might be exceptions with very strong winds, glide angles or runway slopes)
Latest at the ground you should be at idle
Since we are also talking about Airbusses, I see too many pilots keeping the thrust for too long, leading to an increase of thrust during the flare and increasing the landing distance, using too much braking/reversers.
Dani
Other than that, I agree that it's type specific. The only common values are:
at 50ft starts your landing
you have to be over the threshold.
you should have Vref (or Vapp or whatever your manufactor calls it)
flare: reducing vertical speed and reducing power/thrust should go hand in hand (there might be exceptions with very strong winds, glide angles or runway slopes)
Latest at the ground you should be at idle
Since we are also talking about Airbusses, I see too many pilots keeping the thrust for too long, leading to an increase of thrust during the flare and increasing the landing distance, using too much braking/reversers.
Dani
Wow Framer what are you flying with that technique? An FA/18 onto a Carrier???
My thinking is this,on the smaller jets (737,A320) , if you are at the right height, and the right speed at 20ft, and you start a normal flare from there, it is pretty hard not to land betwen 1200ft and 1700ft in, and that will keep most people happy and safe.
I agree that
too many pilots keeping the thrust for too long,
16 years flying, pistons, turboprops, medium jets (A320), I don't remember ONCE looking at my speed past the threshold.
Another thing that came to mind,
If your Vref is 140kts and there is a 20kt headwind component, and you carry 10kts , you end up with a Vapp of 150kts.
In this situation, you are targetting 150kts as you fly down final, if you see 153, 154kts it is natural to think öh well thats only 3 or 4 kts above my target, no big deal¨, but I think that it is worth remembering that you are 13 or 14kts above Vref, thats a fair bit of energy that you have to lose prior to taxiing off the runway. It would be preferable (in my mind) to be 3 or 4kts off you target speed the other way, ie be 146kts, 147kts. In that situation you are still carrying a buffer for the wind on Vref but you haven't added energy that has to be dealt with at some stage.
I'm not suggesting that you don't fix these speed excursions, just that it is better to be below your Vapp driving back up to it than above it trying to lose energy if you have an additive that is more than 5kts.
This is just my mindset and I would welcome constructive criticism of it.
Cheers, Framer
If your Vref is 140kts and there is a 20kt headwind component, and you carry 10kts , you end up with a Vapp of 150kts.
In this situation, you are targetting 150kts as you fly down final, if you see 153, 154kts it is natural to think öh well thats only 3 or 4 kts above my target, no big deal¨, but I think that it is worth remembering that you are 13 or 14kts above Vref, thats a fair bit of energy that you have to lose prior to taxiing off the runway. It would be preferable (in my mind) to be 3 or 4kts off you target speed the other way, ie be 146kts, 147kts. In that situation you are still carrying a buffer for the wind on Vref but you haven't added energy that has to be dealt with at some stage.
I'm not suggesting that you don't fix these speed excursions, just that it is better to be below your Vapp driving back up to it than above it trying to lose energy if you have an additive that is more than 5kts.
This is just my mindset and I would welcome constructive criticism of it.
Cheers, Framer