Quick Donning Crew Oxygen masks!
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Quick Donning Crew Oxygen masks!
I was just wondering if at all there was any legal regulatory requirement(s) to be met before a flight deck crew oxygen mask was approved for use in the cockpit. Such as maybe the time taken to don, the 'sealing off' capability etc etc.
I do know of some older jet airplanes that had a maximum time to don requirement of 5 seconds. Wonder if this is still true for the newer airplanes say the 777/380's.
Also wondering if this requirement would differ from airplane to airplane even though the mask manufacturer remains the same.
Feel free to chip in. I'm on the wrong side of the fence this time....
I do know of some older jet airplanes that had a maximum time to don requirement of 5 seconds. Wonder if this is still true for the newer airplanes say the 777/380's.
Also wondering if this requirement would differ from airplane to airplane even though the mask manufacturer remains the same.
Feel free to chip in. I'm on the wrong side of the fence this time....
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Here is a typical list of requirements for crew oxygen systems:
and a couple more:
So to answer your question. YES!
TABLE 1 – CERTIFICATION REQUIREMENTS

Requirement
Summary
25.611
Accessibility provisions
25X899(a) JAR
Protect the aeroplane, including its systems and equipment, against dangerous effects of lightning discharges;
25.869(c)
Establishes the requirements and conditions for fire protection provisions for oxygen systems.
25.1301(a)-(c)
Function and Installation
25.1309(a) FAR/RBHA, 25.1309(a) JAR, 25.1309(c)
Equipment, systems and installations
25.1316(a)
Requires special protection for functions that, if exposed to a lightning effects, may prevent the continued safe flight and landing of the airplane.
25.1322(a)-(d)
Warning, caution and advisory lights
25.1357 (a),(c),(e)
Circuit protective devices
25.1439
Protective breathing equipment
25.1439(a) JAR, 25.1439(a) FAR/RBHA
Protective breathing equipment must be installed for use of appropriate crew members.
25.1439(b)(1)
The equipment must be designed to protect the flight crew from smoke, carbon dioxide, and other harmful gases while on flight deck duty and while combating fires in cargo compartments.
25.1439(b)(2)
The equipment must include-
(i) Masks covering the eyes, nose, and mouth; or
(ii) Masks covering the nose and mouth, plus accessory equipment to cover the eyes.
25.1439(b)(3) FAR/RBHA, 25.1439(b)(3) JAR
The equipment, while in use, must allow the flight crew to use the radio equipment and to communicate with each other, while at their assigned duty stations.
25.1439(b)(4)
The part of the equipment protecting the eyes may not cause any appreciable adverse effect on vision and must allow corrective glasses to be worn.
25.1439(b)(5) FAR/RBHA, 25.1439(b)(5) JAR
Supply protective oxygen of 15 minutes duration at a pressure altitude of 8000 ft with a respiratory minute volume of 30 litres per minute BTPD.
25.1439(b)(6)
The equipment must meet the requirements of paragraphs (b) and (c) of § 25.1441.
25.1441(c)-(d)
Oxygen equipment and supply
25.1443(b)
Minimum mass flow of supplemental oxygen for each crew member (Pressure- Demand mask)
25.1445(a)(1) FAR/RHBA, 251445(a)(1)-(a)(3) JAR
Equipment standards for oxygen distributing systems for crewmembers;
25.1447(a)-(b), 25.1447 (c)(3) FAR/RBHA
Oxygen dispensing units
25.1449
Means for determining use of oxygen.
25.1453(a)-(b) FAR/RHBA
Protection of equipment from rupture
25.1453(b) JAR
Oxygen pressure sources and pipe lines between the sources and shut-off means must be protected from unsafe temperatures and located where the probability and hazard of rupture in a crash landing are minimised
25X1524 JAR
All limitations applicable to functional equipment and systems installations, and which are considered necessary for safe operation, must be established.
25.1541(a)-(b)
Placards and markings.
25.1543(b)
Establishes that each instrument marking must be clearly visible to the appropriate crewmember.
91.211(a)-(b)
Establishes Supplemental Oxygen for Sustenance
121.329 (b)
Establishes Supplemental Oxygen for Sustenance for crewmembers
121.333(b)-(c)
Establishes Supplemental Oxygen for Emergency Descent and for First Aid.
121.335
Equipment standards
121.337(a)(b)
Establishes requirements for the use of Protective Breathing Equipment (PBE).
JAR OPS-1770
Supplemental Oxygen- pressurized airplanes
JAR OPS-1780
Protective Breathing Equipment.

Requirement
Summary
25.611
Accessibility provisions
25X899(a) JAR
Protect the aeroplane, including its systems and equipment, against dangerous effects of lightning discharges;
25.869(c)
Establishes the requirements and conditions for fire protection provisions for oxygen systems.
25.1301(a)-(c)
Function and Installation
25.1309(a) FAR/RBHA, 25.1309(a) JAR, 25.1309(c)
Equipment, systems and installations
25.1316(a)
Requires special protection for functions that, if exposed to a lightning effects, may prevent the continued safe flight and landing of the airplane.
25.1322(a)-(d)
Warning, caution and advisory lights
25.1357 (a),(c),(e)
Circuit protective devices
25.1439
Protective breathing equipment
25.1439(a) JAR, 25.1439(a) FAR/RBHA
Protective breathing equipment must be installed for use of appropriate crew members.
25.1439(b)(1)
The equipment must be designed to protect the flight crew from smoke, carbon dioxide, and other harmful gases while on flight deck duty and while combating fires in cargo compartments.
25.1439(b)(2)
The equipment must include-
(i) Masks covering the eyes, nose, and mouth; or
(ii) Masks covering the nose and mouth, plus accessory equipment to cover the eyes.
25.1439(b)(3) FAR/RBHA, 25.1439(b)(3) JAR
The equipment, while in use, must allow the flight crew to use the radio equipment and to communicate with each other, while at their assigned duty stations.
25.1439(b)(4)
The part of the equipment protecting the eyes may not cause any appreciable adverse effect on vision and must allow corrective glasses to be worn.
25.1439(b)(5) FAR/RBHA, 25.1439(b)(5) JAR
Supply protective oxygen of 15 minutes duration at a pressure altitude of 8000 ft with a respiratory minute volume of 30 litres per minute BTPD.
25.1439(b)(6)
The equipment must meet the requirements of paragraphs (b) and (c) of § 25.1441.
25.1441(c)-(d)
Oxygen equipment and supply
25.1443(b)
Minimum mass flow of supplemental oxygen for each crew member (Pressure- Demand mask)
25.1445(a)(1) FAR/RHBA, 251445(a)(1)-(a)(3) JAR
Equipment standards for oxygen distributing systems for crewmembers;
25.1447(a)-(b), 25.1447 (c)(3) FAR/RBHA
Oxygen dispensing units
25.1449
Means for determining use of oxygen.
25.1453(a)-(b) FAR/RHBA
Protection of equipment from rupture
25.1453(b) JAR
Oxygen pressure sources and pipe lines between the sources and shut-off means must be protected from unsafe temperatures and located where the probability and hazard of rupture in a crash landing are minimised
25X1524 JAR
All limitations applicable to functional equipment and systems installations, and which are considered necessary for safe operation, must be established.
25.1541(a)-(b)
Placards and markings.
25.1543(b)
Establishes that each instrument marking must be clearly visible to the appropriate crewmember.
91.211(a)-(b)
Establishes Supplemental Oxygen for Sustenance
121.329 (b)
Establishes Supplemental Oxygen for Sustenance for crewmembers
121.333(b)-(c)
Establishes Supplemental Oxygen for Emergency Descent and for First Aid.
121.335
Equipment standards
121.337(a)(b)
Establishes requirements for the use of Protective Breathing Equipment (PBE).
JAR OPS-1770
Supplemental Oxygen- pressurized airplanes
JAR OPS-1780
Protective Breathing Equipment.
TSO-C78
TSO-C89
TSO-C99
TSO-C89
TSO-C99
Really?! There really is a "regulatory requirement(s) to be met before a flight deck crew oxygen mask [is] approved for use in the cockpit" !!
I'm shocked !
I'm shocked !
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Part of those 'Accessibility Provisions' as ststed by JAR states that the mask should be 'accessible and ready to use' within 3-5 seconds of intended use. I see FOs and Capts all the time who regularly use the mask hoses as either a sunglass hangar or a penstand or a spectacle holder or even as an iphone restrainer. I mean, the damn thing is part of the most critical equipment in the airplane for crying out aloud!
Imagine a scenario wherein the captain leaves the flight deck at FL 420 and we have a rapid decomp requiring the FO to don his mask ASAP, which incidentally has all this paraphernalia lying all over and around it....!!
I mean, not only will HE not survive, but neither will those behind him. Or, at the very least he is reducing his chances of survival to a minimum.
I think companies must address this issue pronto. At the very least it violates SEP accessibility rules. At the worst....who knows....
Imagine a scenario wherein the captain leaves the flight deck at FL 420 and we have a rapid decomp requiring the FO to don his mask ASAP, which incidentally has all this paraphernalia lying all over and around it....!!
I mean, not only will HE not survive, but neither will those behind him. Or, at the very least he is reducing his chances of survival to a minimum.
I think companies must address this issue pronto. At the very least it violates SEP accessibility rules. At the worst....who knows....
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In the VC10 the oxygen mask is not considered to be quick don, therefore the handling pilot is required to hang the mask from their headset above FL390 (FL370 if the other pilot is off the flight deck).
Really? Do you often fly at FL420 with said crew in the super? Did they not give you an RVSM course with the t/r!
Above FL 410: required vertical spacing is 2000 ft and Flight Levels increase in steps of 20. This means that FL 420 is not available but FL 450 is used instead by aircraft flying in a south-westerly direction. The next flight level for traffic to the north-east is FL 470 and FL 490 instead of flight level 480 to a south-westerly direction etc...
Eastbound magnetic tracks (000º - 179º) at flight levels 450, 490, 530, 570, ....
Westbound magnetic tracks (180º - 359º) at flight levels 430, 470, 510, 550, ...
Eastbound magnetic tracks (000º - 179º) at flight levels 450, 490, 530, 570, ....
Westbound magnetic tracks (180º - 359º) at flight levels 430, 470, 510, 550, ...
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My airline is not in the business of flying empty airframes where we would have the option of operating above FL400. But in case of rapid decompression, which is a rare occurrence, it's not a case of sudden death. Look at the TUC chart:
Time of Useful Consciousness
FL 150 30 mins or more
FL 180 20 to 30 mins
FL 220 5 to 10 mins
FL 250 3 to 6 mins
FL 280 2.5 to 3 mins
FL 300 1 to 3 mins
FL 350 30 to 60 sec
FL 400 15 to 20 sec
FL 430 9 to 15 sec
FL 500 6 to 9 sec
Time of Useful Consciousness
FL 150 30 mins or more
FL 180 20 to 30 mins
FL 220 5 to 10 mins
FL 250 3 to 6 mins
FL 280 2.5 to 3 mins
FL 300 1 to 3 mins
FL 350 30 to 60 sec
FL 400 15 to 20 sec
FL 430 9 to 15 sec
FL 500 6 to 9 sec
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And depending on how much you smoke that can be cut in half one more time... giving heavy smokers about 2 seconds to get their masks on before they'll need "assistance".
Also, this is worth a viewing to have an idea of what "happens".
Also, this is worth a viewing to have an idea of what "happens".
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Glueball.....what has FL 430 got to do with flying empty or full, for crying out aloud.....????!!!!
Its just a fact of a physiological condition you dummy. What are you smoking?
And I can take a fully loaded 380 to that altitude on a 2 hour leg. So whats the big deal.....
Or are you already at 430 WITHOUT your mask....?!
Its just a fact of a physiological condition you dummy. What are you smoking?
And I can take a fully loaded 380 to that altitude on a 2 hour leg. So whats the big deal.....
Or are you already at 430 WITHOUT your mask....?!
To me it seems K66 is either `drunk` or hypoxic after 30secs,yet no-one tells him to get on oxygen.....irrespective of all the other requests....
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A380 Jockey . . .
what has FL 430 got to do with flying empty or full, for crying out aloud.....????!!!!
You wouldn't be able to use most of the masks I have checked on 737,md80 and foker 50's that I worked on. Mainly due to the rotting food and coffee that has got through the access doors when you front end chaps have been using them as dinner tables...... Shocking really....
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Knowing how to stow it properly enables you to check the mask preflight... Have an engineer show you how in case you don't... Don't accept the bird if the masks aren't in a good state, write it up, whats the issue?
I always thought that the checking, cleaning and stowing of Quick-Don masks was a maintenance function. I would question whether continual removal from and re-stowing of them was beneficial, or even wise.
On one type I have worked on, MD-80, the boxes actually have a tamper seal on them to indicate if they have been messed about with. And take it from me, they are a complete pain in the proverbial to repack.
My advice would be to ensure that in the event of any spillage, or suspected spillage, make an entry in the Tech Log and get them checked and cleaned by maintenance.
On one type I have worked on, MD-80, the boxes actually have a tamper seal on them to indicate if they have been messed about with. And take it from me, they are a complete pain in the proverbial to repack.
My advice would be to ensure that in the event of any spillage, or suspected spillage, make an entry in the Tech Log and get them checked and cleaned by maintenance.