Flight Crew Question: Long Range Flights
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Flight Crew Question: Long Range Flights
From what I remember, on flights that were of less than 8 hours you'd just have the captain, and the first-officer (and on older planes, the flight-engineer), with the pilots alternating flying the plane from one leg to the next of the flight.
On flights over 8 hours, you had an extra person to relieve the Captain, and over 12 hours you had a Relief Captain and First Officer with the primary crew flying the takeoff and landing a certain amount of hours in between, with the relief flying the middle section.
In regards to the 12-hour flights: On alternating legs who flies? Does it work like
1.) Captain A flies the first leg with Captain B as the relief, and then Captain B flying the second leg with Captain A as the relief
2.) Captain A flying the first leg, with Captain B as the relief; First Officer A flying the next leg with First Officer B flying as relief; and so on?
On flights over 8 hours, you had an extra person to relieve the Captain, and over 12 hours you had a Relief Captain and First Officer with the primary crew flying the takeoff and landing a certain amount of hours in between, with the relief flying the middle section.
In regards to the 12-hour flights: On alternating legs who flies? Does it work like
1.) Captain A flies the first leg with Captain B as the relief, and then Captain B flying the second leg with Captain A as the relief
2.) Captain A flying the first leg, with Captain B as the relief; First Officer A flying the next leg with First Officer B flying as relief; and so on?
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That's the U.S. regs. Other countries don't get a third pilot until over 10 hrs. Don't know when they get the fourth pilot.
Most U.S. carriers have only one Captain and 2, or 3, FO's on board. All FO's are left seat qualified.
As far as who flies what leg? The Captain decides. The combinations are all over the map. Captain might not make any of the landings.
Most U.S. carriers have only one Captain and 2, or 3, FO's on board. All FO's are left seat qualified.
As far as who flies what leg? The Captain decides. The combinations are all over the map. Captain might not make any of the landings.
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In the airline where I work (CX) we rarely have two captains on one flight, if there are it is either due to a training flight or there was a roster disruption and all that was available was another captain. On long flights, we have four pilots, usually one captain, one relief command qualified first officer, another first officer (may or may not be relief qualified) and a second officer. The captain and one of the first officers (the non relief qualified one if there is one) will be rostered to operate. The second officer is a cruise pilot and only allowed in the seat above 20,000ft. If its a night flight we split the rest in half, so Captain and rostered to operate FO (if relief FO is landing critical he will do take off and ldg) will normally do take off and then choose the most suitable rest, ie first half or second half. Then SO and relief FO will jump in the seats, switching back again for the landing. Sometimes the rest is broken up differently. If both FOs are relief qualified any combination will work, FO sitting with FO, either FO sitting with SO or CN sitting with anyone. If only one FO is relief qualified he must be one of the people in the front when the CN is resting and the non relief qualified FO can not sit with the SO. CN always sits in the left, the guy acting as the relief FO always sits in the right.
The norm is CN flies one way and rostered to operate FO flies the other, if the other FO is landing critical he will take one of the sectors, sometimes one FO flies one way and the other FO gets the other sector. The SO never gets to fly
. There are no set rules as to who does the sector.
Every airline will have slight variances, I think SQ always has another CN to be relief for eg.
The norm is CN flies one way and rostered to operate FO flies the other, if the other FO is landing critical he will take one of the sectors, sometimes one FO flies one way and the other FO gets the other sector. The SO never gets to fly
. There are no set rules as to who does the sector. Every airline will have slight variances, I think SQ always has another CN to be relief for eg.
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Qantas is similar to Cathay with the exception that all Long-haul First Officers can take command in cruise and we use Second Officers [who don't take-off or land] as extra pilots.
Shorter flights 2 crew, longer 3 crew, over 14 hour tour of duty we go to 1 Captain, 1 First Officer and 2 Second Officers.
Shorter flights 2 crew, longer 3 crew, over 14 hour tour of duty we go to 1 Captain, 1 First Officer and 2 Second Officers.
At my company (US cargo operator) several things come into play. We're not paired together the whole month. I'll fly with 5 Captains this month. Some legs have three pilots, some four. First, some airports are Captain's landing only by company policy (Bagram, Quito, etc.) Second, if the weather requires a CAT II or III approach our policy is they are Captain's landings. (The other F/O on my last flight lost the landing because we had to do a CAT II approach.) Finally, if the plane is light and the c.g. aft, our policy is it's the Captain's TO. Since the reg on currency says three TOs and landings in the last 90 days, if they're going to get the TO, they may as well get the landing.
So when the crew meets up, one of the first things discussed is, "Who needs a landing?" Everyone walks around with their expiration date in mind. Captains do what they can to keep F/Os from pumpkining and having to go back to the sim for a currency checkride.
So when the crew meets up, one of the first things discussed is, "Who needs a landing?" Everyone walks around with their expiration date in mind. Captains do what they can to keep F/Os from pumpkining and having to go back to the sim for a currency checkride.
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European carrier, we can fly up to 14 hours scheduled sectors with only 2 pilots by regulation, up to 18 hour sectors with three pilots if a crew bunk is installed and none of the pilots is longer than 12 hours at the controls.
We augment our crews based on a great circle distance, not based on time. Since we do not have crew bunks installed yet, the max flight duty time (including check in time) is 14 hours so far. Augmented crew is one captain, one cruise relief captain (just a normal captain who is not PIC for this flight) or a senior first officer who is licenced to replace the captain above FL200 and a normal first officer. If a second captain is planned as cruise commander his next longhauf trip has to be as PIC.
We augment our crews based on a great circle distance, not based on time. Since we do not have crew bunks installed yet, the max flight duty time (including check in time) is 14 hours so far. Augmented crew is one captain, one cruise relief captain (just a normal captain who is not PIC for this flight) or a senior first officer who is licenced to replace the captain above FL200 and a normal first officer. If a second captain is planned as cruise commander his next longhauf trip has to be as PIC.
Last edited by Denti; 21st Nov 2011 at 02:42.
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Singapore Airlines used to be: 12+ hours two capts. two FO.
10 to 12 hours two capts. one FO
8 to 10 hours one capt. two FO
up to 8 hours one capt. one FO.
No FO were cleared LHS or relief commander.
10 to 12 hours two capts. one FO
8 to 10 hours one capt. two FO
up to 8 hours one capt. one FO.
No FO were cleared LHS or relief commander.
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Not really, unless you have another LHS qualified person on board the only capt. is limited to staying in his seat or taking a break but remaining on the flight deck, no bunk rest if no one else is LHS qualified, as in SIA in my day. Two capts and one FO allows everyone bunk rest.
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Good and 'other'...
Block time 8-12 hours: '3-pilot' crew consisting of 2C + 1F or 1C + 2F (one F/O type-rated), scheduled for one sector in duty period
Block time over 12 hours: 'two-set' crew consisting of 2C + 2F, scheduled for one or two sectors in duty period
One sector in duty period: crew A does takeoff + 1/2 flight time, crew B does 1/2 flight time + landing
Two sectors in duty period: (here is the 'other' part lol)
Crew A does takeoff and 1/2 flight time of first sector
Crew B does 1/2 flight time + first sector landing followed by takeoff and 1/2 flight time of second sector
Crew A returns to duty and does last 1/2 second sector flight time + landing
UNLESS
One of the two sectors has block time less than two hours, in which case one crew does the short flight and the other takes a greater share of the longer flight so as to divide block time equally between the crews
If you are confused by this lat bit, I understand
Block time over 12 hours: 'two-set' crew consisting of 2C + 2F, scheduled for one or two sectors in duty period
One sector in duty period: crew A does takeoff + 1/2 flight time, crew B does 1/2 flight time + landing
Two sectors in duty period: (here is the 'other' part lol)
Crew A does takeoff and 1/2 flight time of first sector
Crew B does 1/2 flight time + first sector landing followed by takeoff and 1/2 flight time of second sector
Crew A returns to duty and does last 1/2 second sector flight time + landing
UNLESS
One of the two sectors has block time less than two hours, in which case one crew does the short flight and the other takes a greater share of the longer flight so as to divide block time equally between the crews
If you are confused by this lat bit, I understand
