Paravisual Display (PVD) 747-400
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,307
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Paravisual Display (PVD) 747-400
Just noticed in one of my engineering training books that it says:
"The PVD is enabled by:
*Airplane on ground
*Not Rollout Mode engaged
*LOC Data valid
*Course error less than 45 degrees
*Ground speed more than 40kts"
The last item seems to conflict with the Singapore Airlines 006 incident report which says the PVD unshutters at lineup.
http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/n...CAAR-02-01.pdf
The second last item seems to conflict with another manual which says that the displays provide guidance ...
"when the airplane initially turns to within 2.0 degrees of the runway centerline. The guidance stops when the airplane deviation exceeds 3.2 degrees."
Is this a reference to track, rather than heading? Or something else?
Trying to make sense of the information.
All comments welcome
"The PVD is enabled by:
*Airplane on ground
*Not Rollout Mode engaged
*LOC Data valid
*Course error less than 45 degrees
*Ground speed more than 40kts"
The last item seems to conflict with the Singapore Airlines 006 incident report which says the PVD unshutters at lineup.
http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/n...CAAR-02-01.pdf
The second last item seems to conflict with another manual which says that the displays provide guidance ...
"when the airplane initially turns to within 2.0 degrees of the runway centerline. The guidance stops when the airplane deviation exceeds 3.2 degrees."
Is this a reference to track, rather than heading? Or something else?
Trying to make sense of the information.
All comments welcome
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 1,270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi NSEU,
My old notes say:
"PVD unshuttered -
PVD selected on, within valid localizer region, within 45 degs of runway heading, and on ground.
"barber pole" rotates in direction of runway centreline.
Shuttered PVD off -
not within valid localizer region or within 45 degs of runway heading
above 5 ft rad alt
selected PVD source invalid"
It was available from standing still until airborne (40 kts is a red herring)
It makes sense to have the memo message displayed if the PVD is turned on - else you wouldn't know whether it was really on when it wasn't displayed (airborne say for Auto Land with possible manual roll out)
My old notes say:
"PVD unshuttered -
PVD selected on, within valid localizer region, within 45 degs of runway heading, and on ground.
"barber pole" rotates in direction of runway centreline.
Shuttered PVD off -
not within valid localizer region or within 45 degs of runway heading
above 5 ft rad alt
selected PVD source invalid"
It was available from standing still until airborne (40 kts is a red herring)
It makes sense to have the memo message displayed if the PVD is turned on - else you wouldn't know whether it was really on when it wasn't displayed (airborne say for Auto Land with possible manual roll out)
Hi NSEU,
rudderrudderrat has it about right, except
As far as I'm aware, the PVD turns itself off after liftoff and is not available in flight. It is intended purely for guidance during the take-off roll.
So the reason to have the STATUS message is that after you've turned it on (and adjuted the brightness) you then know that it will unshutter again when you line up and achieve the requirements listed by rudderrudderrat:
rudderrudderrat has it about right, except
It makes sense to have the memo message displayed if the PVD is turned on - else you wouldn't know whether it was really on when it wasn't displayed (airborne say for Auto Land with possible manual roll out)
So the reason to have the STATUS message is that after you've turned it on (and adjuted the brightness) you then know that it will unshutter again when you line up and achieve the requirements listed by rudderrudderrat:
"PVD unshuttered -
PVD selected on, within valid localizer region, within 45 degs of runway heading, and on ground.
PVD selected on, within valid localizer region, within 45 degs of runway heading, and on ground.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,307
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks, gents!
On this point, I was wondering if it actually turns itself off, or the shutters just close (as happens when the system is armed prior to takeoff, and before entering the runway)
The manuals say that this "ground" signal is actually a "Rad Alt < 5feet" signal sent to the Flight Control Computer which then sends this and other data to the Para Visual Display Computer. The "in air" logic is actually RA>5 feet AND groundspeed > 80kts. I can't see the sense in the 80kt logic, but this rather low airspeed logic appears in a number of different systems.
Originally Posted by Rudderrudderrat
As far as I'm aware, the PVD turns itself off after liftoff and is not available in flight. It is intended purely for guidance during the take-off roll.
"PVD unshuttered -
PVD selected on, within valid localizer region, within 45 degs of runway heading, and on ground.
PVD selected on, within valid localizer region, within 45 degs of runway heading, and on ground.
Last edited by NSEU; 17th Dec 2013 at 03:42.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 1,270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi eckhard,
On the L1011 we could do a manual Roll Out in 75m RVR mid point provided the PVD was available.
From memory, I think on the 747-400 we were restricted to 100m RVR mid point with manual Roll Out & with PVD - else with no PVD it was 125m.
It is intended purely for guidance during the take-off roll.
From memory, I think on the 747-400 we were restricted to 100m RVR mid point with manual Roll Out & with PVD - else with no PVD it was 125m.
Last edited by rudderrudderrat; 21st Oct 2011 at 07:46. Reason: spelling
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,307
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A captain told me yesterday that the PVD completely shuts off after takeoff. i.e. Memo messages removed without manual intervention.
This may mean you can't test or "arm" it in flight.
Not quite how I thought it worked.
This may mean you can't test or "arm" it in flight.
Not quite how I thought it worked.
Hi rudderrudderrat,
Not sure which year you are referring to for the 747-400 but since 1997 I'm sure we have never used the PVD for landing.
The minimum RVR for take-off on the -400 is 150m (or 100m with PVD if notified in the take-off performance manual or CARD).
The minimum RVR for landing is 100m/100m/adv. There is no allowance for PVD.
Re-reading the tech manual, it does seem theoretically possible to use the PVD for landing, but you would have to push the PVD selector button below 5ft RA for it to unshutter. You cannot 'arm' it in the air.
Interesting to hear that you used it for landing on the TriStar.
Not sure which year you are referring to for the 747-400 but since 1997 I'm sure we have never used the PVD for landing.
The minimum RVR for take-off on the -400 is 150m (or 100m with PVD if notified in the take-off performance manual or CARD).
The minimum RVR for landing is 100m/100m/adv. There is no allowance for PVD.
Re-reading the tech manual, it does seem theoretically possible to use the PVD for landing, but you would have to push the PVD selector button below 5ft RA for it to unshutter. You cannot 'arm' it in the air.
Interesting to hear that you used it for landing on the TriStar.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,307
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re-reading the tech manual, it does seem theoretically possible to use the PVD for landing, but you would have to push the PVD selector button below 5ft RA for it to unshutter. You cannot 'arm' it in the air.
Rollout mode, according to autopilot/FD notes in one 747-400 manual, includes LOC mode (ROLLOUT un-annuciated) on the PFD, so the PVD may be inhibited during Autoland and FD-guided landings.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 1,270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the correction - I must have confused TriStar & 747-400 Low Vis Landing Ops. Please see:
http://www.pprune.org/engineers-tech...lay-query.html
http://www.pprune.org/engineers-tech...lay-query.html
RRR, No problemo.
NSEU, I suppose if the roll mode changes from LOC to ROLLOUT, that would inhibit the PVD, so maybe it is not theoretically possible to use it for landing (autoland); however, if the autopilot was not engaged wouldn't the roll mode remain in LOC, thus enabling the PVD?
I'm not suggesting that this would be a good idea, given that in these RVRs you would want to autoland anyway, but just speaking theoretically?
NSEU, I suppose if the roll mode changes from LOC to ROLLOUT, that would inhibit the PVD, so maybe it is not theoretically possible to use it for landing (autoland); however, if the autopilot was not engaged wouldn't the roll mode remain in LOC, thus enabling the PVD?
I'm not suggesting that this would be a good idea, given that in these RVRs you would want to autoland anyway, but just speaking theoretically?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,307
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've just seen a YouTube video of a 777 autolanding. The PVD comes alive during rollout after A/P disengagement.
It wasn't armed after touchdown. If the system is switched off completely after T/O (memo message/s removed), how did it rearm itself with an in-air inhibit?
Also, I experienced some (reproduceable) unexplained behaviour on a 747-400 today. If I pull all MMR CBs and arm a PVD, the PVD runs through its selftest, then the shutter remains open! Randomly, it scrolled left or right at various speeds or in some cases, stayed still. This weirdness, however, was inhibited during IRU alignment and in ATTitude mode (not sure about full NAV).
I'd love to know which committee designed this system
Cheers
It wasn't armed after touchdown. If the system is switched off completely after T/O (memo message/s removed), how did it rearm itself with an in-air inhibit?
Also, I experienced some (reproduceable) unexplained behaviour on a 747-400 today. If I pull all MMR CBs and arm a PVD, the PVD runs through its selftest, then the shutter remains open! Randomly, it scrolled left or right at various speeds or in some cases, stayed still. This weirdness, however, was inhibited during IRU alignment and in ATTitude mode (not sure about full NAV).
I'd love to know which committee designed this system
Cheers
I've just seen a YouTube video of a 777 autolanding. The PVD comes alive during rollout after A/P disengagement.
It wasn't armed after touchdown. If the system is switched off completely after T/O (memo message/s removed), how did it rearm itself with an in-air inhibit?
It wasn't armed after touchdown. If the system is switched off completely after T/O (memo message/s removed), how did it rearm itself with an in-air inhibit?
On the 777, unlike the 744, you can rearm the PVDs once airborne (and you get the memo messages again), they will then unshutter on touchdown.
I'd love to know which committee designed this system.
IIRC the PVD resulted from research by the Blind Landing Experimental Unit (BLEU) in conjunction with Smiths Industries and Hawker Siddley for use in the Trident aircraft. I assume that BA (BOAC/BEA) provided some evaluation crews.
Further research included vertical guidance – see the installation in HS 748 G-ASJD (later XW750 BLEU) HS748 G-ASJT - a photo on Flickriver
There was also some later research using LED dot matrix systems for flare guidance.
Also IIRC, the military considered some applications of the concept for low altitude roll attitude awareness with a strip display around the windshield.
Further research included vertical guidance – see the installation in HS 748 G-ASJD (later XW750 BLEU) HS748 G-ASJT - a photo on Flickriver
There was also some later research using LED dot matrix systems for flare guidance.
Also IIRC, the military considered some applications of the concept for low altitude roll attitude awareness with a strip display around the windshield.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,307
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
*Ground speed more than 40kts"
Thanks for the updates, guys
British Airways cockpit landing into foggy Gatwick - YouTube
Looking at this 777 autoland video, the PVD inhibit during rollout only seems to operate with the A/P engaged (or are the F/D modes changed/erased when you disconnect the A/P?)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,307
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another question, if I may...
What indications would the PVD show at point "A"? Rolling right to indicate turn right to intersect the runway centre line? Or rolling left to continue turning (to line up with the centre line?) The former is more like raw data, the latter would be more like FD guidance when intersecting the loc.
What indications would the PVD show at point "A"? Rolling right to indicate turn right to intersect the runway centre line? Or rolling left to continue turning (to line up with the centre line?) The former is more like raw data, the latter would be more like FD guidance when intersecting the loc.
Join Date: Jun 1996
Location: Check with Ops
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It would roll left to indicate the centreline is over to the left and that you should go left to get back on centreline. I suggest this is more like raw data i.e. the localiser needle is left so you need to fly left to bring it back to the middle.
It's not bright enough to roll right to intercept the centreline. It's not a flight director that is taking into account turn rates, wind etc, all it's doing is showing you where the localiser is; localiser left, it'll roll left to tell you to go that way to get back on centreline.
Having maligned its simplicity I have to say it is very intuitive and works brilliantly
It's not bright enough to roll right to intercept the centreline. It's not a flight director that is taking into account turn rates, wind etc, all it's doing is showing you where the localiser is; localiser left, it'll roll left to tell you to go that way to get back on centreline.
Having maligned its simplicity I have to say it is very intuitive and works brilliantly
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have never seen PVD, being a 73 driver. Is it displayed for the T/O runway regardless of nav selections? I'm curious because the 73 EFIS and NG have the ILS needles on the PFD, as long as you select an ILS freq on the nav sources, and the LOC needle will seemingly do the same job. Is it simply a system that gives better peripheral and faster/quicker recognition needed because of the higher cockpits of the wide bodies resulting in greater slant ranges for seeing the runway lighting, given that we would operate to the same departure minima?