Stall warning during go around
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Kiev
Stall warning during go around
Hi
Is it acceptable to reach the short-time stall warning during automatic go around with one engine inoperative? Should I disengage AP and proceed manual go around?
Thanks
Is it acceptable to reach the short-time stall warning during automatic go around with one engine inoperative? Should I disengage AP and proceed manual go around?
Thanks
Joined: Aug 2009
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 9,346
Likes: 2,187
From: Texas
Not knowing which kind of aircraft you are flying, that's a tough question for anyone to answer.
That said, if you are flying, do what you need to do not to stall. The warning is intended to cue you to do something to reduce (or at least not increase any further) your Angle of Attack.
That said, if you are flying, do what you need to do not to stall. The warning is intended to cue you to do something to reduce (or at least not increase any further) your Angle of Attack.
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,188
Likes: 6
From: La Belle Province
Gents
I think ImbracableCrunk was answering the OP's question
by posting
rather than contradicting Lonewolf's accurate description of the purpose of stall warning.
I'll just add that its generally considered a non-certifiable behaviour if stall warning sounds during any recommended procedure, especially something like a go-around. It's telling you the GA speed (or approach speed) is too slow to permit the GA to be conducted with an acceptable margin to the stall.
I think ImbracableCrunk was answering the OP's question
Is it acceptable to reach the short-time stall warning
No it isn't.
I'll just add that its generally considered a non-certifiable behaviour if stall warning sounds during any recommended procedure, especially something like a go-around. It's telling you the GA speed (or approach speed) is too slow to permit the GA to be conducted with an acceptable margin to the stall.
Fleet Manager
Joined: Apr 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 7,448
Likes: 310
From: various places .....
its generally considered a non-certifiable behaviour if stall warning sounds during any recommended procedure
If I recall correctly, an operator for which I was doing some 732 sim training work years ago, had a problem with the 744 on departure cleanup with intermittent on schedule warnings at low flap settings ? As I recall the problem presented itself on several runways where a turn was required at the point where the relevant flap setting was taken.
If I recall correctly, an operator for which I was doing some 732 sim training work years ago, had a problem with the 744 on departure cleanup with intermittent on schedule warnings at low flap settings ? As I recall the problem presented itself on several runways where a turn was required at the point where the relevant flap setting was taken.
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,407
Likes: 0
From: engineer at large
Is it acceptable to reach the short-time stall warning during automatic go around with one engine inoperative? Should I disengage AP and proceed manual go around?
As this is not a typical scenario, am I to assume this is a sim?
Here is the issue with a coded procedure...
The procedure is based on many factors, typically a combination of many factors. EO performance is very, very limited on a twin...while the procedure may work in design, in the sim, depending on the settings, it may disco...on the flight val, there are many issues that come into play.
The flaps settings may not change as fast as the procedure design required, for the most part, it is the initiation of the EO missed approach...
The EO missed, assumes the worst case, EO at the MAPt...in reality, if you are EO, at the MAPt (you better be going in) if we look past the worst case, initiating the missed before the MAPt, with some energy other that the final approach speed, then this is much more of a real time situation.
Aside from that, your individual aircraft, and the particular box, from Honeywell, Smiths, or others, will have their own particular settings. Some boxes will give you a prox warning on the missed, assuming a 400' ROC...others will not...
If you were to provide more details on the aircraft, box, altitude, sim, etc, it would be easier to determine...
(stall warnings are never good, no matter who makes the box, but it happens in low speed transitions) what to do is another matter.
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,407
Likes: 0
From: engineer at large
It's telling you the GA speed (or approach speed) is too slow to permit the GA to be conducted with an acceptable margin to the stall.
That is what no one wants to hear, but alas...it is true.
You pilots thinks about this...you are at flaps 30 or 40 on final, near 140kts...and you lose an engine....
while you are trying to turn this bird upwards,
retract flaps, feather throttle, and retract gear...
now...think about all of the things you have to do...
and build that into an automated procedure...
assuming weights, temperatures, and engine performance...
Guest
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,336
Likes: 0
From: On the Beach
I would far rather lose an engine at the MAP that just after V1 on takeoff.
Thankfully, both are extremely remote.
In any case, at the MAP I am, at most, at MLW. At just after V1 I may be at MGTOW.
Thankfully, both are extremely remote.
In any case, at the MAP I am, at most, at MLW. At just after V1 I may be at MGTOW.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,167
Likes: 2
From: Australia
We have thought about it, its practiced in the Sim:--
If you have an Engine failure during a Go Around when the thrust increased ( the worst time, but it does happen ) then the calls for the Go Around remain the same. ie for the 777 "Go around Set Thrust Flap 20…." It then becomes the same as a V1 Cut situation. Climb out one Engine Flap 20 at Vef to Vref + 15 to reach acceleration height and clean up…………It wont take long as you are at TOGA thrust and at or below MLW.
Obviously during the initial climb after gear up and above 400' you should run the applicable Eng Fail/Fire/damage proceedures
I've seen people get ahead of themselves and call "Go Around Set Thrust Flap 5" by mistake
Then they most likely will hear the Stall warning!!
If you have an Engine failure during a Go Around when the thrust increased ( the worst time, but it does happen ) then the calls for the Go Around remain the same. ie for the 777 "Go around Set Thrust Flap 20…." It then becomes the same as a V1 Cut situation. Climb out one Engine Flap 20 at Vef to Vref + 15 to reach acceleration height and clean up…………It wont take long as you are at TOGA thrust and at or below MLW.
Obviously during the initial climb after gear up and above 400' you should run the applicable Eng Fail/Fire/damage proceedures
I've seen people get ahead of themselves and call "Go Around Set Thrust Flap 5" by mistake
Then they most likely will hear the Stall warning!!
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 643
Likes: 203
From: Brisbane
JT to answer your post ref the 744. At maximum take-off weights (395 ton or above) any early turn on the SID can be very speed critical, especially if cleaning up from flap 1 to Up. (The yellow and red bricks almost coming together). Throw in turbulence, some care is required especially if hand flying. For this reason it's standard procedure to manoeuvre with flap 5 or at least 1 until pointing in the right direction. As to the original question you should never, in my opinion trip a stall warning/stick shaker on a GA. Something wrong with the pitch or speed there.
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,954
Likes: 0
From: England
Land. It makes life much easier.
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,270
Likes: 0
From: UK
Hi 777AV8R,
I agree. Disconnect automatics, reduce the pitch slightly until stall warning stops and when in the hold investigate the problem. Either your bugs were set for the wrong weight - or the instructor had loaded the incorrect TO weight / Zero Fuel Weight into the simulator. (e.g. TOW inserted into ZFW box on sim).
I agree. Disconnect automatics, reduce the pitch slightly until stall warning stops and when in the hold investigate the problem. Either your bugs were set for the wrong weight - or the instructor had loaded the incorrect TO weight / Zero Fuel Weight into the simulator. (e.g. TOW inserted into ZFW box on sim).
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,569
Likes: 1
From: Florida
Some confusion here (could be mine entirely 
are we talking about an engine failure precipating a procedure of a go-around? or are we talking about a go around procedure for any reason and while engaged in that procedure an engine fialure occurs resulting in a stall warning.
It make a difference in any claims about the aircraft being outside its design certification intent.
At any rate the previous responses have already covered how to deal with it while flying.
are we talking about an engine failure precipating a procedure of a go-around? or are we talking about a go around procedure for any reason and while engaged in that procedure an engine fialure occurs resulting in a stall warning.
It make a difference in any claims about the aircraft being outside its design certification intent.
At any rate the previous responses have already covered how to deal with it while flying.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
From: Montreal
Stall warning during go around
Question;
Is it acceptable to reach the short-time stall warning during automatic go around with one engine inoperative? Should I disengage AP and proceed manual go around?
My answer;
Having flown in turbulent and thermal conditions close to the ground, my
experience tells me that,for a given acceptable IAS and attitude (AOA),the stall warning will trigger when airflow direction changes occur through the start of thermals or the gusting and rolling effects of turbulence close to the ground.
I would think, though,that stall sensors are different from one aircraft type to another and,although I fly low performance power planes,high performance aircraft on auto pilot (or auto anything), may react differently.
Another thing is that with multiengine aircraft, there is a possibility that
differential thrust, causing slipping or skidding, may trigger occasional airflow changes (turbulence) over one wing etc.
IF Airspeed and Attitude are within limits,occasional and intermittend stall warning sounds should be nothing to worry about.
Is it acceptable to reach the short-time stall warning during automatic go around with one engine inoperative? Should I disengage AP and proceed manual go around?
My answer;
Having flown in turbulent and thermal conditions close to the ground, my
experience tells me that,for a given acceptable IAS and attitude (AOA),the stall warning will trigger when airflow direction changes occur through the start of thermals or the gusting and rolling effects of turbulence close to the ground.
I would think, though,that stall sensors are different from one aircraft type to another and,although I fly low performance power planes,high performance aircraft on auto pilot (or auto anything), may react differently.
Another thing is that with multiengine aircraft, there is a possibility that
differential thrust, causing slipping or skidding, may trigger occasional airflow changes (turbulence) over one wing etc.
IF Airspeed and Attitude are within limits,occasional and intermittend stall warning sounds should be nothing to worry about.
