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Fuel policy, minimum fuel at destination

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Fuel policy, minimum fuel at destination

Old 23rd Jun 2011, 23:00
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Fuel policy, minimum fuel at destination

What is the fuel policy for destination.
Whot is minimum fuel onboard upon you land at destination
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Old 23rd Jun 2011, 23:05
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You will have enough fuel and oil to fly to the alternate airport, and then you shall be capable to fly another 45 minutes.
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Old 23rd Jun 2011, 23:20
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Fuel policy

Thats right thats min fuel.
What if you arrive to initialy fix and atc says that you nead to hold 15 min. And you have just to alternate plus 45 min or 30 min at 1500ft.
Would you wait 15 min or you should go to alternate.

Point is why not always take some small amount of extra fuel and whats the policies of other companies
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Old 23rd Jun 2011, 23:57
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We have NO fuel policy. None at all, and I and all of my collegues ALWAYS take extra (at least 300 kg) than minumum Flight Plan calculated fuel. Questions are NEVER asked.
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Old 24th Jun 2011, 00:08
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What if you arrive to initialy fix and atc says that you nead to hold 15 min. And you have just to alternate plus 45 min or 30 min at 1500ft.
Would you wait 15 min or you should go to alternate.


If you leave with legal minimum fuel, you have NO holding fuel at destination. So if ATC ask you to hold 15, 10, even 5mins you have to divert straight away.

Point is why not always take some small amount of extra fuel and whats the policies of other companies

I always take more than min fuel, how much more depends on forecast or actual weather and traffic conditions. Every company ive worked for have had the "its up to the flight crew how much extra fuel you take, thats why you get paid the big bucks" policy.

Taking extra fuel is also required by some countries AIP's, for example the UK AIP says you should anticipate and fuel appropriately for 20mins holding when opperating into the london TMA.

Last edited by FlyingTinCans; 24th Jun 2011 at 00:19.
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Old 24th Jun 2011, 00:12
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You can, under certain circumstances, burn your alternate fuel in the hold and then land at your destination with just your final reserve left. Whether that's sensible is a different question!
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Old 24th Jun 2011, 00:16
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So if ATC ask you to hold 15, 10, even 5mins you have to divert straight away.
Not true if you have an expected approach time and the weather is company VMC. What are people being taught during ATPLs these days.
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Old 24th Jun 2011, 00:34
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the weather is company VMC
Well something different to whatever ATPL course you did Mona!

Can you explain how being able to make a visual approach to an airfield has any impact on the minimum fuel you need to land?
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Old 24th Jun 2011, 00:36
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Some countries mandate landing with minimum half an hour fuel (holding flaps up at 1500' at your planned landing weight) - at least for jet ops.

You can legally burn your alternate fuel (if you are carrying any) in the hold or approaching your destination if the weather is forecast to be above the landing minima at your expected approach time.

Also, the fuel considerations are different during planning and operation.
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Old 24th Jun 2011, 00:41
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Because the absolute minimum fuel at landing is Final Reserve. In Europe anyway you can burn your alternate fuel in the hold providing you have an expected approach time and the weather is good enough that a single failure of landing equipment (either on the ground or the aircraft) won't preclude you from landing.

Edit. Beaten to it
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Old 24th Jun 2011, 01:02
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Yes, so if holding over a CAT2 airfield you need CAT1 minimum (550m RVR is not VMC!)

Also i thought Final Reserve Fuel was the fuel to fly for 30 minutes at holding speed 1,500ft above aerodrome elevation in ISA calculated with the estimated landing mass on arrival at the alternate or the destination when no alternate is required.

So you burn part of or all your alternate fuel in the hold over you destination, you get to your EAT, and the weather has gone below minimums OR and aircraft has blocked the runway due to a burst tire OR the EAT has changed.

All of your options have now gone, apart from being a smoking hole in the ground.

Last edited by FlyingTinCans; 24th Jun 2011 at 01:03. Reason: spelling
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Old 24th Jun 2011, 01:31
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Also, if you do burn all your alternate fuel in the hold, you are then eating into your final reserve fuel to make your approach and therefore landing below minimum fuel and have to declare an emergancy.
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Old 24th Jun 2011, 01:44
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So you burn part of or all your alternate fuel in the hold over you destination, you get to your EAT, and the weather has gone below minimums OR and aircraft has blocked the runway due to a burst tire OR the EAT has changed.

All of your options have now gone, apart from being a smoking hole in the ground.
But no different to diverting to the alternate with normal reserves and the same happening. At least with commiting to your destination you have the chance of some extra fuel.
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Old 24th Jun 2011, 10:18
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Theres is a difference between the dispatch fase and flight execution. In the dispatch fase you have to have enough fuel to arrive at the airport and have enough fuel to fly to the alternate and then hold for thirty minutes. In the actual flight fase it depends what you do. Sometimes diverting to the alternate may be better, sometimes burning up your alternate fuel is better, depends entirely on the conditions. It is definitely not required to divert right away!! You may use your alternate fuel at destination!!
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Old 24th Jun 2011, 11:28
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The fuel your plan says you must carry will vary, depending on weather or other factors. Usually you're planning to have 45 minutes overhead your alternate airport (if one is required) as a minimum. When you get on the plane and close the door you have at least this minimum fuel on board (more is nice, but sometimes not possible) and are "released" to a certain place. What you do with the fuel to get you to the point where you are "released" to is entirely up to you (the Captain that is), arriving overhead and encountering the situation given here:

If you leave with legal minimum fuel, you have NO holding fuel at destination. So if ATC ask you to hold 15, 10, even 5mins you have to divert straight away.
Is (alone) not a good reason to divert to another airport. The fuel is not intended to be used for holding, it is fuel that must be carried and used at the Captains discretion.
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Old 24th Jun 2011, 11:44
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Whatever fuel I feel like I need to cover my and keep me out of the 'tea and bickie' room

It's up to your company to stipulate what the minimum legal requirement is for you to carry and it's up to the skipper to decide how much more to take above this minimum.
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Old 24th Jun 2011, 12:42
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It's up to your company to stipulate what the minimum legal requirement is for you to carry and it's up to the skipper to decide how much more to take above this minimum.
Not entirely true. The captain is responsible to know the minimum legal requirements and act accordingly. If your OPS give you the wrong qty, it is still your responsibility.
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Old 24th Jun 2011, 13:29
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What is the fuel policy for destination.
Whot is minimum fuel onboard upon you land at destination
Klosterman,

You might want to check this out, it is type related but the first pages will give you the general regulations about minimum fuel to be carried.

Enjoy.

Last edited by I-2021; 24th Jun 2011 at 13:30. Reason: typo
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Old 24th Jun 2011, 15:29
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Because the absolute minimum fuel at landing is Final Reserve.
That's true but not always - there's a situation where it's perfectly
legal to burn one's FR (except for taxy in after landing of course),
albeit one has to submit the necessary report(s) after landing.

One'd only need to think of a couple of possible scenarios and the
reason for protecting one's FR in the planned sense becomes obvious.
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Old 24th Jun 2011, 15:53
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Yeah, that's what it's there for. The scenario I was talking about was for in-flight replanning. You're not going to keep on down the approach if, for instance the gear gets stuck just so that you come to a grinding halt in a shower of sparks with your FR remaining
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