In flight turbulence

[Yankee Whisky]

Can anyone conform that severe turbulence is ALWAYS proceeded with
signs that pilots can react to and take timely appropropiate action?
Ref; Calgary incident with injured passengers 2007 ?

Apparently there were questions that related to passengers ignoring the seatbelt signs which, presumably, were "ON".

[J.O.]

Not always. Some incidents have occurred very suddenly with no advance warning whatsoever.

[Ultralights]

Can anyone conform that severe turbulence is ALWAYS proceeded with
signs that pilots can react to

In short, No. but if your approaching bad weather on the horizon, you can expect some rough stuff and get the seatbelt lights on in advance..

[sevenstrokeroll]

you bring up an interesting question. I have to ask, are you considering legal action? IF YOU ARE, there is a case in which a DC10 operated by American Airlines hit very, very bad (extreme) turbulence and a lawsuit by the sister of film director Steven (or is it stephen) Spielberg won a couple of million dollars for pain and suffering.

And I think the seatbelt sign was on!

There are some pilots who don't pay attention to all the ''signs''...one of which is a change in outside air temp (static air temp).

I know of one incident in which the seat belt sign was ON, yet someone got up to use the bathroom...he ended up paralyzed when they hit bad air.

[lynn789]

as long as the pilots keep their seatbelts done upn then I will too

my dad startsd flying as a pax in the 1920s and on the advice of a pilot always kept his seatbelt on, dad was often reminded by pax that he had forgotten to undo it.....'air pockets' back then usually arrived with no warning

[Load Toad]

As a passenger I've never understood other passengers obsession with undoing the seat belts. A safety video showing passengers that aren't belted up being catapulted into the overhead bins or, as I once saw on a bouncy flight a bloke that was determined to get to the toilet who got to know both the floor of the cabin & the ceiling intimately over the space of about a second might have more people keeping the belts on.

[gottofly]

In my PA,I always suggest to pax to have their seatbelts loosely fastened while seated in case we hit unexpected turbulence.I dont think many pay heed to that but,.........safe flying guys.

[visibility3miles]

There is no such thing as "ALWAYS" unless it is death and taxes.

What, exactly, are you referring to?

Weather can change quickly in unpredictable ways from better to worse, no matter how sophisticated the technology and predictions.

Whenever in a plane, usually as a pax sound asleep, I keep my seatbelt fastened unless I have to get up and move around.

If pax refuse to heed the "fasten seat belts" signs and announcements, do you expect cabin crew to pass by every ten seconds making sure everyone stays buckled up after several warnings?

[Piltdown Man]

I can categorically confirm that some of the worst upsets I've experienced occurred without any warning whatsoever. Most of these were wake vortex encounters (don't you just love the accuracy of modern altimeters?), some were the edges of jetstreams and the rest were mountain wave. I've also had a few surprises with Cbs where there was no turbulence whatsoever and even bigger surprises with very small Cu where my eyeball's nearly dropped out. But generally, there is some warning which is why the seat belt signs are normally on in anticipation.

PM

[llagonne66]

As you will find in the litterature the notion of Clear Air Turbulence (CAT), everything is said !
Clear-air turbulence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Therefore, you will not always get the luxury of a warning.

[Slasher]

Therefore, you will not always get the luxury of a warning.

In CAT the TAT suddenly jumping gives about a 3-5 second warning.

[stue]

Do you honestly sit there and look at the TAT every 3 to 5 seconds though?

[sevenstrokeroll]

I honestly do monitor the TAT or OAT or whatever you have...I even keep a bit of a log...(certainly this is in level cruise). Its not that hard, just put it into your scan.

I must admit I learned it from a film, rarely seen, called, "The Pilot"...with Clift Robertson...its an interesting film...look closely when they remove the DC8's trim cover and giggle.

anyway, it is true that a sudden change in temp can warn of CAT. And I've found it in other aeronautical publications.

[Pugilistic Animus]

I made some controversial statements about this topic
Here:
http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...es-flight.html

Here
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/4...-over-goa.html
and here
http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/42399...questions.html


decide for yourself

[Slasher]

Do you honestly sit there and look at the TAT every 3 to 5 seconds though?

No, but I keep an eye on it while flogging around in forecast
severe CAT areas at CAT levels. Mostly, temp trends (high to
low or low to high) are slow which usually means only mod
turb, but sudden 3 degree jumps or more is like slamming
into a brick wall a few secs later.

I've done a lot of China/Japan/trans-Pacific/Europe flights for
many years and one tends to pick up the clues. The best idea
of course is to stay low and keep out of it, but that's not always
possible.

[Pugilistic Animus]

Right now the best advice I can offer is to look at my posts with a very critical eye...
and Follow what Slasher says...Scan, scan, scan, he knows what the hell he's doing

[Uncle Fred]

There are some pilots who don't pay attention to all the ''signs''...one of which is a change in outside air temp (static air temp).

Excellent point. I always look at the flight plan for next 300 miles ahead and note the temp, the altitude of the trop, and the winds. Was told many years ago that if two of the three are changing in roughly 300 miles or less (think of 10 degrees or so going over the north atlantic or pacific) then there is a good (not certain of course) of rough air. Has proven to be remarkably accurate.

Of course if just one is changing (and changing significantly) then of course all bets are also off.

Not checking it ever 5 seconds, but I do try to keep Prog page 2 (777) displayed so as to look at the SAT.

Piltdown

some were the edges of jetstreams and the rest were mountain wave.

Agreed! North side of jetstream, kinks in the jetstream, the jetstream nipping the trop etc. all can be hazardous.

Would be fun if one could see a computer generated graphic as to what the atmosphere looked like when all this is going on--particulary what the waves are riding up and over in the upper atmosphere.