Gear unsafe/missed approach.
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Gear unsafe/missed approach.
Scenario,
On approach the crew selected the gear down and get a gear unsafe warning. The crew elect to do a missed approach/go around and clean the aircraft up fully IAW company SOPs. They then climb and maneuver to a holding pattern to deal with the situation.
Upon reviewing the QRH, it spells out "NOT" to retract the gear for their situation, which they have already done so (?).
My question is, were the crew correct in retracting the gear during the missed approach given the situation ? Dealing with a QRH checklist is a very low priority whilst low to the ground, not to mention the complications involved if they had an engine failure during the missed approach with the gear partially extended, ie reduced climb performance.
In my view I believe that the gear unsafe warning in this situation has become a secondary problem when dealing with a missed approach.
On approach the crew selected the gear down and get a gear unsafe warning. The crew elect to do a missed approach/go around and clean the aircraft up fully IAW company SOPs. They then climb and maneuver to a holding pattern to deal with the situation.
Upon reviewing the QRH, it spells out "NOT" to retract the gear for their situation, which they have already done so (?).
My question is, were the crew correct in retracting the gear during the missed approach given the situation ? Dealing with a QRH checklist is a very low priority whilst low to the ground, not to mention the complications involved if they had an engine failure during the missed approach with the gear partially extended, ie reduced climb performance.
In my view I believe that the gear unsafe warning in this situation has become a secondary problem when dealing with a missed approach.
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I see what your saying....
However when you drop the gear you will be above 1000' so able to troublesoot / QRH, this could then guide you not to retract the gear when you elect to go to the hold and run the QRH fully.
PT6A
However when you drop the gear you will be above 1000' so able to troublesoot / QRH, this could then guide you not to retract the gear when you elect to go to the hold and run the QRH fully.
PT6A
Let's call leaving the gear down with an unsafe indication during the go around, good airmanship. A vanishing quality in a world of pilots who are tied to procedures.
GF
GF
jriv
Not smug at all--in fact, good airmanship was in the QRH, according to the OP. If the plane has a problem, the best answer is to not change a thing until analyzing the situation, take the proper actions.
GF
Not smug at all--in fact, good airmanship was in the QRH, according to the OP. If the plane has a problem, the best answer is to not change a thing until analyzing the situation, take the proper actions.
GF
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Agree with GF
A Missed approach is a "normal" event, or at least it should be considered so.
Good airmanship is not a smug attitude it is from the old school of training.
glf
Good airmanship is not a smug attitude it is from the old school of training.
glf
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Couple of thoughts -
(a) in the test fraternity, a golden rule is along the lines of - if you do something and something else unpleasant eventuates .. undo the first action. Moral - change is not always a good thing and might be equivalent to leaping out of the pan and into the fire ...
(b) I'm sure GF would expand his comment to include "if that's the only problem" ie, if we then have a bad hair day and lose a motor .. the gear probably will be on the way up or, at the very least, a close eye will be kept on the OEI performance .. given consideration to the location.
and
there's no shortness of smug and condescending attitudes.
generally, one observes several stages in a pilot's (indeed, in any professional's) development -
(a) initial training - hanging onto the tail of the tiger
(b) initially "experienced" - overconfidence and brashness
(c) a few more frights - the beginnings of some self doubt
(d) maturity - best captured in the old standard "the superior pilot uses his superior understanding and knowledge to keep himself out of situations which might cause him to need to bring his superior skill to bear in order to dig himself out of a hole of his own making"
GF has been around long enough to qualify for (d).
(a) in the test fraternity, a golden rule is along the lines of - if you do something and something else unpleasant eventuates .. undo the first action. Moral - change is not always a good thing and might be equivalent to leaping out of the pan and into the fire ...
(b) I'm sure GF would expand his comment to include "if that's the only problem" ie, if we then have a bad hair day and lose a motor .. the gear probably will be on the way up or, at the very least, a close eye will be kept on the OEI performance .. given consideration to the location.
and
there's no shortness of smug and condescending attitudes.
generally, one observes several stages in a pilot's (indeed, in any professional's) development -
(a) initial training - hanging onto the tail of the tiger
(b) initially "experienced" - overconfidence and brashness
(c) a few more frights - the beginnings of some self doubt
(d) maturity - best captured in the old standard "the superior pilot uses his superior understanding and knowledge to keep himself out of situations which might cause him to need to bring his superior skill to bear in order to dig himself out of a hole of his own making"
GF has been around long enough to qualify for (d).
FWIW I was always taught ( old school) to leave it down. You have no idea why the gear is unsafe in the first place, there may be damage in the wheel wells and/or gear components and recycling may not help matters.
Of course if you have second emergency you'll have to reconsider wether to raise it or not.
Of course if you have second emergency you'll have to reconsider wether to raise it or not.
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Well put, Wiggy. No condescension or smugness noted...
You apparently realize that when a pilot looks for help, associating that pilot with a lack of airmanship (unlike the good old days
) is counterproductive and in fact, condescending.
You apparently realize that when a pilot looks for help, associating that pilot with a lack of airmanship (unlike the good old days
) is counterproductive and in fact, condescending.
Last edited by jriv; 2nd May 2011 at 03:25.
Jriv
No offense or condescension intended, simply a statement of fact of experience and good airmanship. If the plane has no untoward reaction to the unsafe gear indication, leave it down until in a position to deal with it. Maintain a safe and conservative speed considering the slat/flap configuration. As J_T stated, if I extended the flaps to the next position and the plane had a large rolling moment to the right, immediately command the flaps to the previous position.
Too many pilots, here and in the briefing room, seem to take offense when none is present or intended. The profession demands something of a thick skin, aviation didn't get to be the safest way to travel because of lawyers or niceities; it got there because of a lot of tough questions and embracing some uncomfortable truths.
GF
No offense or condescension intended, simply a statement of fact of experience and good airmanship. If the plane has no untoward reaction to the unsafe gear indication, leave it down until in a position to deal with it. Maintain a safe and conservative speed considering the slat/flap configuration. As J_T stated, if I extended the flaps to the next position and the plane had a large rolling moment to the right, immediately command the flaps to the previous position.
Too many pilots, here and in the briefing room, seem to take offense when none is present or intended. The profession demands something of a thick skin, aviation didn't get to be the safest way to travel because of lawyers or niceities; it got there because of a lot of tough questions and embracing some uncomfortable truths.
GF
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Telling a pilot looking for help that airmanship is a vanishing quality is, in my humble opinion, condescending.
I will take you for your word that it was not meant that way.
Many probably agree and there are some other threads elsewhere on the subject - the sentiment, however, is best left out of Tech Log - JT
I will take you for your word that it was not meant that way.
Many probably agree and there are some other threads elsewhere on the subject - the sentiment, however, is best left out of Tech Log - JT
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In 2 engines condition,performance for go around(as for take off) must not be a problem with the gear down.
Leave the gear where it is,it has happened to me during take off,a unsafe main gear situation after retracting it.
No checklist so gear selected down with 3 green,landed back.
Damaged gear arm,recycling could have ended in a very different way according to the mechanics following a thorough inspection.
Leave the gear where it is,it has happened to me during take off,a unsafe main gear situation after retracting it.
No checklist so gear selected down with 3 green,landed back.
Damaged gear arm,recycling could have ended in a very different way according to the mechanics following a thorough inspection.
