Managing time critical checklists!
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In high stress situations something that seems very sensible can be a big big mistake so it is probably better to do the drills as written, in the order they have been written, rather than act instinctively.
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Beiger 1...great post!
I think there is a lil misconception here of the word 'hurry' and 'slowly'. To me,a hurried action is one where ur hands move before your brain. And a 'slow' action is one where your hands only move where your brain has been a few (milli)seconds ago. There and only there lies the difference. Think about it ..
I think there is a lil misconception here of the word 'hurry' and 'slowly'. To me,a hurried action is one where ur hands move before your brain. And a 'slow' action is one where your hands only move where your brain has been a few (milli)seconds ago. There and only there lies the difference. Think about it ..
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PJ2, I thought your post was wonderful. It articulated perfectly what we all see happen far too often on checks. I'm almost tempted to print it off and bring it on my next Sim ride.
Airbus380 Jockey - I've heard that 'curtain' reference before, from an Airbus Instructor (I mean a member of Airbus's own training cadre from Toulouse).
When he spoke those words, myself and my Sim companion (another Captain) looked at each other with mouths agape....because it went right against EVERYTHING our airline was teaching us in its CRM program.
But that is indeed what Airbus want, in their Big Green Book!
Since then I've moved to a different company, and again had the joy and pleasure of attending a course with some of these Airbus in-house Sim Jockies.
I found it a most distasteful experience.
In my previous company they had been allowed in on that one occasion to do some training because of manpower shortages in our own training department. But, since our company did not operate to Airbus SOPs (we had our own) Mr.Froggy had to adapt to ours.
That included taking down the 'curtains'.
This time things were different. I was on 'their territory' (Airbus facility) and my new company operates slavishly to Airbus SOP's.
Some of the Airbus instructors were good.
Very good even - as indeed they should be!!
But one or two were arrogant and opinionated, in the way that only the French (and sometimes Germans) can be.
One particular individual (ex French Airforce) reeked of contempt for Commercial pilots, and made it very clear that most of them were second rate compared to him. He constantly reminded us of his ex-fighter pilot status, and bragged about how he had turned down a boring Air France job (yes, this guy had never flown a Commercial flight in his life).
He was one of the 'Rush Rush' brigade. Also the 'Shut Up' brigade, and the 'Airbus Mouth Music' brigade. I can honestly say it was one of the most humiliating experiences I've ever had in a Sim - to have to listen to that braggart sighing and grunting from the back seat if anyone put a word wrong. I learned nothing from him, and couldn't wait to get out of his reach. One of the worst 'instructors' I've ever met in my career.
Perhaps your instructor was a product of this kind of Airbus trainer.
On a final note I'd say this - as aircraft have become more complex, and as the funds available to Training Departments have been cut - it has become the practice of TD's to pile more and more into Sim slots with no regard for the actual time taken to complete the exercises. No allowance is made for Sim malfunctions or breakdowns, and many elements of the Sim program have to be done in an unholy rush, or dropped altogether from the program on the day. This is pointless and frustrating, and does NOT create an atmosphere conducive to LEARNING.
And that's the WHOLE POINT OF TRAINING.
Airbus380 Jockey - I've heard that 'curtain' reference before, from an Airbus Instructor (I mean a member of Airbus's own training cadre from Toulouse).
When he spoke those words, myself and my Sim companion (another Captain) looked at each other with mouths agape....because it went right against EVERYTHING our airline was teaching us in its CRM program.
But that is indeed what Airbus want, in their Big Green Book!
Since then I've moved to a different company, and again had the joy and pleasure of attending a course with some of these Airbus in-house Sim Jockies.
I found it a most distasteful experience.
In my previous company they had been allowed in on that one occasion to do some training because of manpower shortages in our own training department. But, since our company did not operate to Airbus SOPs (we had our own) Mr.Froggy had to adapt to ours.
That included taking down the 'curtains'.
This time things were different. I was on 'their territory' (Airbus facility) and my new company operates slavishly to Airbus SOP's.
Some of the Airbus instructors were good.
Very good even - as indeed they should be!!
But one or two were arrogant and opinionated, in the way that only the French (and sometimes Germans) can be.
One particular individual (ex French Airforce) reeked of contempt for Commercial pilots, and made it very clear that most of them were second rate compared to him. He constantly reminded us of his ex-fighter pilot status, and bragged about how he had turned down a boring Air France job (yes, this guy had never flown a Commercial flight in his life).
He was one of the 'Rush Rush' brigade. Also the 'Shut Up' brigade, and the 'Airbus Mouth Music' brigade. I can honestly say it was one of the most humiliating experiences I've ever had in a Sim - to have to listen to that braggart sighing and grunting from the back seat if anyone put a word wrong. I learned nothing from him, and couldn't wait to get out of his reach. One of the worst 'instructors' I've ever met in my career.
Perhaps your instructor was a product of this kind of Airbus trainer.
On a final note I'd say this - as aircraft have become more complex, and as the funds available to Training Departments have been cut - it has become the practice of TD's to pile more and more into Sim slots with no regard for the actual time taken to complete the exercises. No allowance is made for Sim malfunctions or breakdowns, and many elements of the Sim program have to be done in an unholy rush, or dropped altogether from the program on the day. This is pointless and frustrating, and does NOT create an atmosphere conducive to LEARNING.
And that's the WHOLE POINT OF TRAINING.
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It is simple, there never is a curtain
Time critical applies to recall items, alerts at warning level and situations where the physical integrity of crew and/or passengers is at stake.
At all times the PF must be able to follow what the PNF is doing and visa versa.
Monitoring the flight path and configurations has priority and verbal confirmation by the PF of non-reversible items executed by the PNF is a must.
Given the above requirement it is the PF who sets the pace at which the checklist of time critical items are executed. Starting the APU is not time critical and can wait.
It is essential that the PNF continues to monitor the flight path in between checklist items a long as critical terrain and obstacles are not cleared, he must take the time to do that. The PNF will do that in between items as necessary in order to conduct an effective monitoring.
The PNF will assure himself that the PF is aware of each item of the checklist that is being executed, verbal confirmation is not needed to complete this task. This will set the pace for the PM.
This will assure that no time is lost and any effect of checklist items upon aircraft flight path control are spotted by the PF as they occur.
So the terms slowly, too fast or slow are irrelevant.
The real issue is not to loose time while completing the above mentioned tasks and not to do more than is required.
Time critical applies to recall items, alerts at warning level and situations where the physical integrity of crew and/or passengers is at stake.
At all times the PF must be able to follow what the PNF is doing and visa versa.
Monitoring the flight path and configurations has priority and verbal confirmation by the PF of non-reversible items executed by the PNF is a must.
Given the above requirement it is the PF who sets the pace at which the checklist of time critical items are executed. Starting the APU is not time critical and can wait.
It is essential that the PNF continues to monitor the flight path in between checklist items a long as critical terrain and obstacles are not cleared, he must take the time to do that. The PNF will do that in between items as necessary in order to conduct an effective monitoring.
The PNF will assure himself that the PF is aware of each item of the checklist that is being executed, verbal confirmation is not needed to complete this task. This will set the pace for the PM.
This will assure that no time is lost and any effect of checklist items upon aircraft flight path control are spotted by the PF as they occur.
So the terms slowly, too fast or slow are irrelevant.
The real issue is not to loose time while completing the above mentioned tasks and not to do more than is required.
Last edited by Pitch Up Authority; 1st Sep 2011 at 10:54.
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I have been referenced to this "curtain" only during the Smoke Procedure.
Never elsewhere.
Why should the smoke procedure be treated any different??
As a PF, I would hate to be reeled into direct law without mutual understanding and consent.
Any comments will be appreciated. Thanks.
Never elsewhere.
Why should the smoke procedure be treated any different??
As a PF, I would hate to be reeled into direct law without mutual understanding and consent.
Any comments will be appreciated. Thanks.
