Falcon2000EX questions
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Falcon2000EX questions
Gents a few tech questions about regading the Falcon2000EX. Be helpful if you guys can help out...
1. Are the DISCHARGE No 2 for both engines ie ENG 1 Discharge2 and ENG 2 Discharge 2 always armed as long as the BAT1 is plugged in?? I was told in Ground school that that is the case but cant seem to find this in the literature.
2. In case both engines fail. Do we still have the ECL? Can we configure the MDU to still show the ECL? and also since the NIC/PROC have separate batteries they should work...am I right?
3. We were told that APU has to be shutdown before takeoff. Again whats the reason specially when we are told we can restart it if we lose an engine on T/O above TOSA. Whats to prevent one from keeping it running for T/O..
One suggestion was that it was because of the stress on the APU door for the intake on take off. but considering there is no limitation mentioned for the door in terms of airspeed, this does not seem possible.
4. Is the weather radar (Honeywell Primus 880) the same for the F900EX and the F2000EX?
And the final question
5. Which is more of interest to me as a Engineer.
The F2000EX is the only aircraft I know off that directly (in way of speaking) gets electrical power as DC (since it has Rectifier Alternators in the Accesories attached to the engines).and where-ever AC is needs DC is converted again to AC.
Any other aircraft that do this and why??? whats the reason??
Thank you
1. Are the DISCHARGE No 2 for both engines ie ENG 1 Discharge2 and ENG 2 Discharge 2 always armed as long as the BAT1 is plugged in?? I was told in Ground school that that is the case but cant seem to find this in the literature.
2. In case both engines fail. Do we still have the ECL? Can we configure the MDU to still show the ECL? and also since the NIC/PROC have separate batteries they should work...am I right?
3. We were told that APU has to be shutdown before takeoff. Again whats the reason specially when we are told we can restart it if we lose an engine on T/O above TOSA. Whats to prevent one from keeping it running for T/O..
One suggestion was that it was because of the stress on the APU door for the intake on take off. but considering there is no limitation mentioned for the door in terms of airspeed, this does not seem possible.
4. Is the weather radar (Honeywell Primus 880) the same for the F900EX and the F2000EX?
And the final question
5. Which is more of interest to me as a Engineer.
The F2000EX is the only aircraft I know off that directly (in way of speaking) gets electrical power as DC (since it has Rectifier Alternators in the Accesories attached to the engines).and where-ever AC is needs DC is converted again to AC.
Any other aircraft that do this and why??? whats the reason??
Thank you
WRT question 5, it is because pilots who grew up on Cessnas and Pipers, got their first professional experience in King Airs, don't trust AC power, just as they don't trust hydraulic flight controls. I am NOT being flip, I have lots of personal encounters to justify that statement. I have been told Challengers and Globals are DC airplanes with all the AC power converted to DC thru the TRs.
GF
GF
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5. Which is more of interest to me as a Engineer.
The F2000EX is the only aircraft I know off that directly (in way of speaking) gets electrical power as DC (since it has Rectifier Alternators in the Accesories attached to the engines).and where-ever AC is needs DC is converted again to AC.
Any other aircraft that do this and why??? whats the reason??
The F2000EX is the only aircraft I know off that directly (in way of speaking) gets electrical power as DC (since it has Rectifier Alternators in the Accesories attached to the engines).and where-ever AC is needs DC is converted again to AC.
Any other aircraft that do this and why??? whats the reason??
I'm type rated on the FA50, we fly FA50EX in our company.
It's the same type of architecture for the electrical power in the FA50 : DC power for the a/c, converted when necessary (EFIS). In the FA50B (1st FA50 version), you had to switch the converters ON when powering up, 2 converters + 1 stdby.
On the FA50EX, it's DC everywhere, converted to AC by the instruments (without knowledge from the crew) when needed.
I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think on those type of business jets, DC is being used for ease of production and use. Considering the amount of electrical power output necessary for the a/c, DC is more practical (generators smaller than IDGs you could find on bigger a/c).
I think that's why. To be confirmed !
What avionics type do you have on your 2000EX ?
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Ah.. we have the EASy...
Everything the plane does electrically is without our knowledge!
No powering up converters etc...
Just switch 2 BATT on, Power up the APU, Switch on 2 GEN and forget about it till the plane tells you otherwise...
Makes for very "easy" operation but doubts on what she is doing remain from time to time.
Got answers on PM to Questions 1,2,3 and 5
Waiting for 4...
Everything the plane does electrically is without our knowledge!
No powering up converters etc...
Just switch 2 BATT on, Power up the APU, Switch on 2 GEN and forget about it till the plane tells you otherwise...
Makes for very "easy" operation but doubts on what she is doing remain from time to time.
Got answers on PM to Questions 1,2,3 and 5
Waiting for 4...
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Yeah heard about the wonderful stuff available on the EASy 2 but considering its going to be a 2 Million plus $ option I doubt the company will take it... 
But funny a G1000 Nav III C172 can do stuff we are not allowed to..
I am just happy with the HUD with EVS
But funny a G1000 Nav III C172 can do stuff we are not allowed to..
I am just happy with the HUD with EVS
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oh I bet you're happy 
Is it the certified EVS with minima reduction allowance ?
Or it's just infrared camera just for fun ?
Anyway, the EASy 2 will be mandatory at some point with CPDLC & ADS-B for 2015.
How does the 2000EX fly, say compared to a 50 ?
Is it the certified EVS with minima reduction allowance ?
Or it's just infrared camera just for fun ?
Anyway, the EASy 2 will be mandatory at some point with CPDLC & ADS-B for 2015.
How does the 2000EX fly, say compared to a 50 ?
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pitch is the same, ailerons a little less responsive.
Near stall, it is dull (compare to the 50)
as for cpdlc is concerned, EASY 2 is not a full package it is segmented in various options, if you do not take SVS, that help a lot on the bill side....
However as soon as it starts with wiring inputs ( ADM, for example) or various upgrades ( RNP SAAR) then the total is awful
Flight testing just finished, LOA and JOEB to produce something for lowering minimas on CAT1 approaches ( EVS not allowed on CAT3B )
Near stall, it is dull (compare to the 50)
as for cpdlc is concerned, EASY 2 is not a full package it is segmented in various options, if you do not take SVS, that help a lot on the bill side....
However as soon as it starts with wiring inputs ( ADM, for example) or various upgrades ( RNP SAAR) then the total is awful
Flight testing just finished, LOA and JOEB to produce something for lowering minimas on CAT1 approaches ( EVS not allowed on CAT3B )
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Answers
Hi Challenger05,
If you are talking about the 2000EX EASy the answer of your first 4 questions are:
1) Yes. See CODDE 1 Reference below.
The battery bus is powered whenever the battery 1 is installed and plugged in. Regardless of battery switch position, the battery bus provides electrical power directly to the:
- Fuelling panel
- Emergency and normal slat control circuit
- APU starter circuit
- Engine FIRE extinguishers secondary discharge
- Fuel shut-off valves
- Critical light circuit
2) If both engines fail the LH and RH ISOL will automatically isolate essentially leaving only the mini load powered and therefore only the LH and UP DU's powered. In this configuration the ECL will not be available. The screens are not clever enough to detect the failure and automatically reconfigure. Therefore, you must switch the LW and RH DU off to allow the ECL to be sent to the UP DU and be available.
3) Nothing to stop you running it for takeoff but the only reason I can think you would need to is if you had an engine driven generator U/S. In fact there is a specific procedure for it in CODDE 2 to allow just that. There are no speed limits for APU door but you will have to make corrections to TO speeds and fuel burn due to the increased drag.
4) Yes
Hope that helps.
Cheers,
TSP
If you are talking about the 2000EX EASy the answer of your first 4 questions are:
1) Yes. See CODDE 1 Reference below.
The battery bus is powered whenever the battery 1 is installed and plugged in. Regardless of battery switch position, the battery bus provides electrical power directly to the:
- Fuelling panel
- Emergency and normal slat control circuit
- APU starter circuit
- Engine FIRE extinguishers secondary discharge
- Fuel shut-off valves
- Critical light circuit
2) If both engines fail the LH and RH ISOL will automatically isolate essentially leaving only the mini load powered and therefore only the LH and UP DU's powered. In this configuration the ECL will not be available. The screens are not clever enough to detect the failure and automatically reconfigure. Therefore, you must switch the LW and RH DU off to allow the ECL to be sent to the UP DU and be available.
3) Nothing to stop you running it for takeoff but the only reason I can think you would need to is if you had an engine driven generator U/S. In fact there is a specific procedure for it in CODDE 2 to allow just that. There are no speed limits for APU door but you will have to make corrections to TO speeds and fuel burn due to the increased drag.
4) Yes
Hope that helps.
Cheers,
TSP
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Regarding Q5...
Been a while since I last worked on Falcons and indeed I haven't worked on a 2000 or 2000EX, but on the 20 and 50 series with GE CF700 engines, the reason for choosing DC power as the primary power source was, I think, entirely down to the fact that the engines used Starter / Generators.
During engine start the aircraft batteries were series-up to provide approx 48VDC, but the respective starter motors were 28VDC. The current drain on the batteries during start up was in the region of 900 amps and this effectively volts dropped the 48VDC available down to around 28V. As the engines spooled up the series connection dropped out and the starter motors became 28VDC Generators. So the one device became dual purpose, Starter and Generator. The changeover from Starter Motor to Generator was managed by Generator Control Units mounted in the Right hand Radio Rack.
Given the relatively physical small size of the Falcon family, i suspect voltage drop due to long feeder lengths was not considered to be a problem and AC power wasn't required for most of the aircraft's systems. Some flight instruments, the radar and the cabin strip lights were AC powered and this was derived by feeding the DC to 3 x 750VA Inverters providing 115VAC 400Hz and 26VAC 400Hz; these were normally mounted up in the nose cone. An Inverter switch on the overhead panel when set to 'ARM' would automatically switch in No3 if one of the other two failed.
Some exec versions had another independent inverter providing either 115VAC 60Hz or 240VAC 50HZ for domestic applications such as Video players and TV monitors.
I suspect the same regime possibly exists with all Falcons and for the same reasons. Besides...28 Volts much easier to play with than 115v...and no problems with phasing...
pp
Been a while since I last worked on Falcons and indeed I haven't worked on a 2000 or 2000EX, but on the 20 and 50 series with GE CF700 engines, the reason for choosing DC power as the primary power source was, I think, entirely down to the fact that the engines used Starter / Generators.
During engine start the aircraft batteries were series-up to provide approx 48VDC, but the respective starter motors were 28VDC. The current drain on the batteries during start up was in the region of 900 amps and this effectively volts dropped the 48VDC available down to around 28V. As the engines spooled up the series connection dropped out and the starter motors became 28VDC Generators. So the one device became dual purpose, Starter and Generator. The changeover from Starter Motor to Generator was managed by Generator Control Units mounted in the Right hand Radio Rack.
Given the relatively physical small size of the Falcon family, i suspect voltage drop due to long feeder lengths was not considered to be a problem and AC power wasn't required for most of the aircraft's systems. Some flight instruments, the radar and the cabin strip lights were AC powered and this was derived by feeding the DC to 3 x 750VA Inverters providing 115VAC 400Hz and 26VAC 400Hz; these were normally mounted up in the nose cone. An Inverter switch on the overhead panel when set to 'ARM' would automatically switch in No3 if one of the other two failed.
Some exec versions had another independent inverter providing either 115VAC 60Hz or 240VAC 50HZ for domestic applications such as Video players and TV monitors.
I suspect the same regime possibly exists with all Falcons and for the same reasons. Besides...28 Volts much easier to play with than 115v...and no problems with phasing...
pp
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Thanks
Thank you for your answers...
Specially to Phalconphixer for the thought behind the DC usage, very satisfying to finally get an answer to an engg design issue...
@ TSP: Thank you for your responses too...However this is a slight deviation for the answer for Q 3....I looked up the CODDE 2 could not locate the procedure... had sent a mail to one of my instructors for the EASy program in CAE and got the following answer regarding the APU shutdown for T/O
" If APU is left running at takeoff, the APU Bleed valve will close and one will get a APU FAULT msg on the CAS as soon as power is advanced for takeoff or shortly thereafter, at speed below 80knots (keeping with the CAS logic), for this reason its recommended to shut down APU prior to Takeoff"
Am I missing something here? also like I said I could not locate the said procedure in CODDE2, could they have changed that in the latest revision??
Cheers...
Specially to Phalconphixer for the thought behind the DC usage, very satisfying to finally get an answer to an engg design issue...
@ TSP: Thank you for your responses too...However this is a slight deviation for the answer for Q 3....I looked up the CODDE 2 could not locate the procedure... had sent a mail to one of my instructors for the EASy program in CAE and got the following answer regarding the APU shutdown for T/O
" If APU is left running at takeoff, the APU Bleed valve will close and one will get a APU FAULT msg on the CAS as soon as power is advanced for takeoff or shortly thereafter, at speed below 80knots (keeping with the CAS logic), for this reason its recommended to shut down APU prior to Takeoff"
Am I missing something here? also like I said I could not locate the said procedure in CODDE2, could they have changed that in the latest revision??
Cheers...
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Hi Challanger05,
The instructor who gave you the information is in fact correct and I was wrong. The procedure to which I referred was for takeoff with APU door open. I always assumed (wrongly) that it was to allow you to make corrections should you despatch with one engine generator inoperative. However on closer inspection it does say with APU shut down and in fact the MEL does not allow you to despatch with one generator U/S.
You do get the APU fault message on takeoff for the reasons specified but as long as you are aware it will happen it does not cause any significant problems. However, due to the inability to despatch with a U/S generator I cannot think of a situation where you would need to have the APU running on takeoff.
Cheers,
TSP
The instructor who gave you the information is in fact correct and I was wrong. The procedure to which I referred was for takeoff with APU door open. I always assumed (wrongly) that it was to allow you to make corrections should you despatch with one engine generator inoperative. However on closer inspection it does say with APU shut down and in fact the MEL does not allow you to despatch with one generator U/S.
You do get the APU fault message on takeoff for the reasons specified but as long as you are aware it will happen it does not cause any significant problems. However, due to the inability to despatch with a U/S generator I cannot think of a situation where you would need to have the APU running on takeoff.
Cheers,
TSP
Originally Posted by Challenger05
...Ah.. we have the EASy...
The URL itself is "http://forums.falconeasygroup.com"
