Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Tech Log
Reload this Page >

Jet Fuel Consumption

Wikiposts
Search
Tech Log The very best in practical technical discussion on the web

Jet Fuel Consumption

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 18th Oct 2010, 13:23
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: uk
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 3 Posts
Jet Fuel Consumption

My question concerns the difference in fuel consumption if an airliner is held down at a lower level than the planned level.

For example, if crossing the Atlantic you are held down 2000 or 4000 feet lower than planned how significant is the increase in consumption?
WIDN62 is online now  
Old 18th Oct 2010, 13:54
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Gold Coast
Age: 58
Posts: 1,611
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If you keep the same speed then yes it'll hurt you by a percent or two.
Usually all you have to do is slow down a little and you'll get much the same burn for the leg. I've flown a 747 for about six hours on a ten hour flight, stuck a good 6,000' - 8,000' low and only lost a tonne or two. Also lost a bit of time but in a ten hour flight not enough to worry about.
FWIW the rule of thumb with a 747 Classic is to keep the TAS to a maximum of 500kts or an IAS of about 320, whichever is lower, that seems to work fairly well down low.
18-Wheeler is offline  
Old 18th Oct 2010, 14:04
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: France - mostly
Age: 84
Posts: 1,682
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
EDIT:: Typically, depending on airplane, engine, weight, and Mach:
2000 ft below optimum: 2%; 4000 ft 5%; 6000 ft 9%

Last edited by HazelNuts39; 19th Oct 2010 at 16:58. Reason: see my post #14 below
HazelNuts39 is offline  
Old 18th Oct 2010, 15:45
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Germany (North)
Age: 44
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A319 with CFM56-5B engines:

Using In-Cruise Quick Check table of the FCOM:
2000nm to go, when you want to cruise FL370 but can only fly FL310, you'll burn 9820kg instead of 9045kg. That is 8.6% more.
If you have only 1000nm left, it is basically same percentage.

Long range cruise assumed, that is, the previous statements on how to adapt true airspeed are applied. Close to 9% is quite a lot and shows how altitude-hungry turbofans are. The more the better.
CabinMaster is offline  
Old 18th Oct 2010, 16:26
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 367
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I concur.

Comiing back to UK earlier this year from the middle east and was held down by 6000' for several hours. Made a big hole (400kgs or so) in the contingency fuel. But that's what it's for.
Nubboy is offline  
Old 18th Oct 2010, 16:39
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Germany (North)
Age: 44
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Using FCOM of A330-300 (Lufthansa, PW engines), assuming again 2000nm distance to destination and FL310 instead of FL370 (this quietly assumes that FL370 can be reached at current gross weight), the fuel burn difference is 3200kg.

FL370 M0.8 - 20053kg
FL350 M0.8 - 20968kg or 4.6%
FL330 M0.8 - 22034kg or 9.9%
FL310 M0.8 - 23427kg or 16.8%

One can say, roughly 4-5% more per 2000ft.
CabinMaster is offline  
Old 18th Oct 2010, 17:53
  #7 (permalink)  
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
5.3.2.3 of "Getting to grips with Fuel Economy" from ABI will tell you indicative figures.
BOAC is offline  
Old 18th Oct 2010, 18:52
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: France - mostly
Age: 84
Posts: 1,682
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
CabinMaster;

I noticed that you get bigger percentage differences from the 'Quick Check' tables than from the tables giving momentary cruise fuel flow. Compare for example FCOM 3.05.15 p.11 (cruise M.80) and 3.05.20 p.3 (cruise M.80). I don't understand why there is so much difference. Any ideas?

regards,
HN39
HazelNuts39 is offline  
Old 18th Oct 2010, 20:06
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Germany (North)
Age: 44
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I just checked 170t gross weight, FL310 versus FL370, Mach 0.8.
Difference in fuel flow is 16.9%, so in line with the numbers I previously provided.

The slight difference is due to the different ground speed at constant Mach, as lower altitude means higher ground speed (this note is aimed at the people without ATPL - I don't even have a PPL).

We must consider that the Quick Check table is a bit unrealistic as 170t Gross Weight (reference for Quick Check I used) for an A330-300 is pretty low, actually only possible on a ferry flight or with very low payload.
CabinMaster is offline  
Old 18th Oct 2010, 20:26
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Gangster Paradise, RSA
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Try Long range Cruise, problem solved....
Maurice Chavez is offline  
Old 19th Oct 2010, 06:07
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,843
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I've just completed a relatively short sector (1518 nm) in a B777-200 with a Lido Flight Plan showing a TIME of 3:28 and FUEL BURN of 21767 Kg.

Lido add a very nice little estra to their CFPs, quoting directly -

ONE FL BELOW BURN ADD 447KG / TIME 03:27

That's as near as dammit to a 2% increase for 1000 ft below planned (Optimum) level. Over a reasonable range of lower levels, it would be safe to extrapolate this figure, e.g. for 6000 ft below Planned Level, add 12%. This seems to be in line with previous responses.

I'm about to launch on a Trans-Pacific crossing with a B777-300ER, and with this this thread in mind will post if, for a much longer flight, the percentage increment changes significantly. (I suspect that the percentage increment will be much the same).

Maurice Chavez, Assuming that RSA indicates Saudia Arabia (and not South Africa), I suspect that your CIs from your oil-rich country would be above LRC, so not a bad suggestion. For we mere mortals from oil-deprived countries, our CIs are already below LRC, a wiser suggestion might be to reduce to Maximum Range Speed (CI=0)

Regards,

Old Smokey
Old Smokey is offline  
Old 19th Oct 2010, 06:14
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
Posts: 4,789
Received 45 Likes on 21 Posts
OS,

I operate from one of those "Oil rich" countries, and OUR CIs are ALSO below LRC!!

One point, I think the "One level below" figure on a LIDO plan means one APPROPRIATE level below- thus 2000' lower in RVSM.
Wizofoz is offline  
Old 19th Oct 2010, 06:22
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Dubai
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Wiz it is 4000 below as non-RVSM is considered (see OMC App J P15:47) I thought it was 1000 once until a smart cadet pointed it out to me!

TOD
Thridle Op Des is offline  
Old 19th Oct 2010, 07:55
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: France - mostly
Age: 84
Posts: 1,682
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
CabinMaster;

Your reminder that the change in TAS must be taken into account is appreciated.
Apparently it matters where you look in the table. It would seem that the smallest percentages are found near the optimum altitude for each weight, as illustrated here.

regards,
HN39

Last edited by HazelNuts39; 19th Oct 2010 at 14:11. Reason: graphic
HazelNuts39 is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2010, 21:00
  #15 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: uk
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 3 Posts
Thanks for the interesting replies. It would appear that, like us down in turbo-prop country (mid to high FL2xxs), you will burn more, but not an insurmountable problem.
WIDN62 is online now  
Old 27th Oct 2010, 07:40
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Germany (North)
Age: 44
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The turboprop is less susceptible to lower altitudes. That's why turbo props rule on short range. It is both due to optimization of the designs at hand, and due to the physical limitations of a prop.
Usually an ATR will gain some advantage when going higher, but it is not as significant as for the jets, also due to the lower distances.
CabinMaster is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.