Engine fire warning on the ground? Evacuation?

[Maurice Chavez]

Originally Posted by de facto

Capt becomes PF if stop call is made hence he performs recall items.

Actually NOT so... He is PF and only does the thrust lever during the memory items, HE DOES NOT carry out memory items, same in the air or if F/O is PF, PF only handles the thrust lever during memory items.

[reivilo]

Parking brake set: F/O completes all memory items and does not need confirmation for 'critical items'. Captain communicates with twr/cabin

[de facto]

I typed too fast, yes PM will perform recall items in the air.

In my previous Airline PM was also closing the thrust lever.

By my SOP, CAPT performs recall items on the ground.

[Maurice Chavez]

Originally Posted by de facto

By my SOP, CAPT performs recall items on the ground.

So now the FO assess the situation??? Weird. We stick to Boeing and don't make up our own stuff. RTO done by CAPT, he becomes PF and does not carry out memory items...Like I said, the only thing that is ever done by the PF while carrying out memory items is the handling of the thrust lever. BTW, Boeing has changed from 'Recall Items' to Memory Items quite a while ago. New Boeing SOP's....

[de facto]

Bit sensitive there "memory items" man

[b744FPEK]

listen to your instructors ,so he wouldnt fail you


here in my company ,only the captain can call "stop"
and for engine fire ,in our QRH "ENGINE FIRE OR ENGINE SEVERE DAMAGE OR SEPARATION" we only use the second bottle if the engine fire switch was still on after the first one .yes we wait 30 sec.coz its on QRH.
and we will do the EVACUATION after the ENG FIRE QRH. you can not trust the light!
for the memo items.the right seat only do the fire switch . in the FCOM "area of responsibility"the throttle and the eng start lever are all belong to the captain .

and also .before the evacuation ,i would tell the cabin crew to evacuate from the opposite side of the fire.

[rudderrudderrat]

Guys,

I think we are in danger of getting into "simitis" here. It depends on the circumstances.

We have to practice Emergency Evacuation in the sim, and for a realistic scenario sometimes an engine fire warning is included for realism.

If the Engine fire warning is out and the Fire Chief confirms there is no danger - why would you want Evacuate and break a few elderly bones? You always have the option to evacuate some seconds later if it really was required.

[Maurice Chavez]

Originally Posted by de facto

Bit sensitive there "memory items" man

Lol, sorry must have gotten carried away...

[grounded27]

Jumping to conclusions

- firing a bottle does nothing to the fuel supply.

There is no time restriction on firing the second bottle. Evacuation - that is what you are paid to decide.

Actually, I do not know of a modern jet that will allow you to discharge a bottle W/O first pulling the fire handle thus cutting off fuel.

First possibility you should think of is a blown duct, as you reject after engine idle if the warning goes away, fire handle pulled as said before visual confirmation (window,cc or atc). Blow your bottle as you wish and do not panic, confirmed fire may force egress before you blow your 2nd bottle. Good egress communications to cabin depending on nature of fire wind etc..

Teamwork and a good communication with your other crewmember(s) is vital.

[punkalouver]

Originally Posted by reivilo

Parking brake set: F/O completes all memory items and does not need confirmation for 'critical items'.

Is it the same with 'critical items' for other procedures such as ENG FAIL....no confirmation required.

[capngrog]

Originally Posted by FullWings

I'm not a chemist but I was under the impression that the exact opposite was the case: the whole effectiveness of halon-like suppressants comes from their ability to interfere with combustion processes at the atomic level, once broken down by heat. The cooling/smothering effects are welcome but secondary...

See: SKYbrary - Halon Fire Extinguishers

That is correct, FullWings. In a previous life, 35+ years ago, I was a fire protection engineer, and your above explanation was the then accepted understanding of Halon's interaction with the combustion process. Lower extinguishing concentrations of Halon are not lethal to Human Beings since Halon is not an atmosphere (oxgen) displacing substance such as is CO2.

Over the years, I've read many accident reports and have noted an all too frequent lack of timely communication of a problem between cockpit crew and cabin crew and vise-versa. It seems that all too often a serious problem that is revealed by looking out a cabin window is not communicated to the cockpit in a timely fashion. This may be a holdover from the "old days" when cabin crew were reluctant to call the cockpit's attention to a problem out of concern of distracting the attention of the cockpit crew. For example, I recall several instances of decompression or slowly falling cabin pressure that actuated the passenger oxygen masks, but the cabin crew never notified the cockpit crew that the masks had dropped. Anyway, hopefully things are improving with the current emphasis on Crew Resource Management (CRM). I think it is indicative that, in the beginning, CRM was Cockpit Resource Management, but people soon realized that both cabin and cockpit crews must work together in an emergency.

As a reminder of how quickly a ground fire can destroy an aircraft, here's a short video of the China Airlines Flt 120 ground fire that destroyed a B-737-800 on the ground at Naha, Airport, Okinawa on 20 August 2007

The link:

You Tube

Grog

P.S. The fire was the result of a fuel tank breach that occurred when a loose bolt, improperly installed during a maintenance procedure, was forced through the web of the forward wing spar upon slat retraction.

[Jim_A]

Careful and methodical use of the evacuation checklist will generally take care of any issues. An evacuation is almost guaranteed to result in some injuries, so some care should be exercised. If Fire/Rescue is on the scene, they probably can give the best advice.

[lomapaseo]

Originally Posted by Jim_A

Careful and methodical use of the evacuation checklist will generally take care of any issues. An evacuation is almost guaranteed to result in some injuries, so some care should be exercised. If Fire/Rescue is on the scene, they probably can give the best advice.

Yes they can advise, but only against what is happening outside. Evacuation initiation is left to the pilot and unfortunately sometime also the passengers based on their senses