Pax Emergency Evacuation
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Pax Emergency Evacuation
Hi all,
In my latest Sim recurrent training, my IP pointed out to me that while performing Pax Evac on the runway (or wherever)there is no more a requirement to tell the cabin crew which side/doors not to use.
The Purser/Cabin attendants are to make an assessment of the exterior situation and decide which doors to open/use.
To my opinion this is utterly wrong.
but before I begin an attack on our safety/standards Dept. I wanted to hear what is done at other airlines.
Your input is important.
Thank you
I.F
In my latest Sim recurrent training, my IP pointed out to me that while performing Pax Evac on the runway (or wherever)there is no more a requirement to tell the cabin crew which side/doors not to use.
The Purser/Cabin attendants are to make an assessment of the exterior situation and decide which doors to open/use.
To my opinion this is utterly wrong.
but before I begin an attack on our safety/standards Dept. I wanted to hear what is done at other airlines.Your input is important.
Thank you
I.F
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Working for a major EU carrier our book says
If in commanders opinion exit(s) shall not be used due to risk of fire or other hazard he will announce additionally "KEEP CLOSED......".
With an engine on fire the associated exit # ( ) should not be used.
With an engine on fire the associated exit # ( ) should not be used.
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In my compamy, Cabin Crew are trained that it is their responsibility to check outside for hazards and therefter make their own assessment of which slides/exits should be used.
On balance, I think this is best, the CC can best SEE what's going on outside, they should not be reliant on FD's possibly incorrect interpretation of instrumentation, or perhaps the incorrect communication of correctly intrepreted instrumentation.
In any case given a sufficiently hazardous situation, the CC can initiate the evacuation themselves. Probably more importantly, if the scenario is sufficiently dangerous, the pax will be out the unguarded emergency exits, in the pub and enjoying their first pint by the time the emergency evacuation checklist has been completed, and if you don't believe the latter to be true, you've never seen one for real.
Of all the sim check items most gloriously and regularly f$%ed up, emergancy evacuation must be right up there at the top of the list.
Leave the decision to those who can best assess the hazard.
No doubt there will be many who disagree.
On balance, I think this is best, the CC can best SEE what's going on outside, they should not be reliant on FD's possibly incorrect interpretation of instrumentation, or perhaps the incorrect communication of correctly intrepreted instrumentation.
In any case given a sufficiently hazardous situation, the CC can initiate the evacuation themselves. Probably more importantly, if the scenario is sufficiently dangerous, the pax will be out the unguarded emergency exits, in the pub and enjoying their first pint by the time the emergency evacuation checklist has been completed, and if you don't believe the latter to be true, you've never seen one for real.
Of all the sim check items most gloriously and regularly f$%ed up, emergancy evacuation must be right up there at the top of the list.
Leave the decision to those who can best assess the hazard.
No doubt there will be many who disagree.
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In the course of 29 years Ive gone from exits not to be used to exits to be used to no nomination of exits at all.
In the cabin din of all the yelling and screaming they believed the exits not to be used would be all youd hear, and so theyd go to those exits - so then they said nominate the exits to be used. Finaly they thought the guys up the pointey end may be allready killed dead end or might not know the true picture from the cabin crew view. So they dropped calling any exits in toto.
Will not doing so because of this silly SOP stand up in Court in the event of loss of life? Yep it will!
Do I agree with this not naming exits? Certainley not!
Do I still want my salary at the end of the month? You betcha!
In the cabin din of all the yelling and screaming they believed the exits not to be used would be all youd hear, and so theyd go to those exits - so then they said nominate the exits to be used. Finaly they thought the guys up the pointey end may be allready killed dead end or might not know the true picture from the cabin crew view. So they dropped calling any exits in toto.
Will not doing so because of this silly SOP stand up in Court in the event of loss of life? Yep it will!
Do I agree with this not naming exits? Certainley not!
Do I still want my salary at the end of the month? You betcha!
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My company teaches the words "Hazard on the right/left", the Cabin crew must evaluate the situation themselves, and even if they manage to safely dispatch one or two passengers from an exit deemed "dangerous" by the cockpit, it is one or two extra lives saved.
There have been many incidents where an exit was initally used, saved a few lives and thereafter became unusable and unsafe, those saved souls are thankfull for the limited oppurtunity they got, due to a cabin crew's evaluation of external conditions, and those that had to re-route because of a dynamic changing situation where also thankfull for not being bundled out of an exit into harms way.
There have been many incidents where an exit was initally used, saved a few lives and thereafter became unusable and unsafe, those saved souls are thankfull for the limited oppurtunity they got, due to a cabin crew's evaluation of external conditions, and those that had to re-route because of a dynamic changing situation where also thankfull for not being bundled out of an exit into harms way.
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Our company says we should let the cabin crew decide which side to evac. We have also been told they are trained to look outside by the door window before opening a door to see wether or not there is a fire, jet leak, etc...
I does seem that the CC know what they are doing, i mean after some of these recent evacuations ---I was thinking about that Toronto A330, and I believe there was another one
---I was thinking about that Toronto A330, and I believe there was another one
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Thank you all.
Although most of your reports are in agreement with my instructor's (company policy) I still feel this is quite wrong.
I mean really, can you imagine this little 5'7 flight attendant opening a door and looking at a burning RB211 spewing fuel/oil/hydraulic fluid saying to herself.... ''Nope, that's a bad exit'' and now goes into exit blocking procedure that is nothing more that standing there blocking the exit with her body, and shouting : ''do not use this exit''? and while at the same time down the isle comes charging Joe Blow... a 6''4 hulk,half drunk of all those Bloody Marys he had earlier to overcome his fear of flying, seeing blue skies through that door? he '' moves her aside gently'' and goes right out...... needles to say, he will probably not end up in the local pub having more drinks and telling stories.
What I am trying to say is this:
The Pilots will in MOST cases have a better picture of what is happening outside the aircraft.
CC will not always be able to correctly assess the external situation by peeping out the door port hole.
Once a CC had opened a door that is deemed unusable, it will not guarantee no PAX will still escape through it and will be harmed.
I mean really, can you imagine this little 5'7 flight attendant opening a door and looking at a burning RB211 spewing fuel/oil/hydraulic fluid saying to herself.... ''Nope, that's a bad exit'' and now goes into exit blocking procedure that is nothing more that standing there blocking the exit with her body, and shouting : ''do not use this exit''? and while at the same time down the isle comes charging Joe Blow... a 6''4 hulk,half drunk of all those Bloody Marys he had earlier to overcome his fear of flying, seeing blue skies through that door? he '' moves her aside gently'' and goes right out...... needles to say, he will probably not end up in the local pub having more drinks and telling stories.
What I am trying to say is this:
The Pilots will in MOST cases have a better picture of what is happening outside the aircraft.
CC will not always be able to correctly assess the external situation by peeping out the door port hole.
Once a CC had opened a door that is deemed unusable, it will not guarantee no PAX will still escape through it and will be harmed.
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What I am trying to say is this:
The Pilots will in MOST cases have a better picture of what is happening outside the aircraft.
The Pilots will in MOST cases have a better picture of what is happening outside the aircraft.
With some big jets having upwards of 14 cabin attendants that's a lot more fire observers than the two blokes with pilots hats up front. Every circumstance is different and so is the wind direction. The pilots have enough on their plate reading checklists and pulling levers etc. Might be better to leave which exits to the flight attendants. The lawyers who come looking for trouble will have a harder time blaming 15 FA's than the captain.
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And on the Dash 8...
The captain tells the first officer out of which exits should the evacuation be performed; he starts and completes the memo items and I relay the information from the captain to the (single) lady back there by any means (PA or visual). After that, I do my flow, go out the cockpit and assist the F/A in the evacuation and actually, the first officer is the first crew member out of the airplane to assist the pax while they're sprinting out of it. Flight attendant and captain evacuate the airplane through "the most convenient exit" according to my SOP.
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In my opinion,leaving the decision to the trained cabin crew is the best.
your left & right can quite easily be reversed for aft facing person ( crew or pax) who hear the call on PA.(consider confusion , smoke etc)
your left & right can quite easily be reversed for aft facing person ( crew or pax) who hear the call on PA.(consider confusion , smoke etc)
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Hi Folks,
I think there a lot of inexperienced flight crew around to give such a big decision for them.
I think we should say which side to evacuate , and then ,the cabin crew upon confirmation start the evacuation.
But ..you know. It`s one responsability less for us pilots.
A3TWENTY
I think there a lot of inexperienced flight crew around to give such a big decision for them.
I think we should say which side to evacuate , and then ,the cabin crew upon confirmation start the evacuation.
But ..you know. It`s one responsability less for us pilots.
A3TWENTY
