Definition of Ultra Long Haul
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Joined: Nov 2004
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From: Spruce Grove
Definition of Ultra Long Haul
Forgive this post if it is in the wrong forum. I was not sure where to place it.
Does anyone have a documented definition of Ultra Long Haul Flights? Be it Boeing, Airbus, FAA, EASA, ICAO, or anything?
Regards,
Gards!
Does anyone have a documented definition of Ultra Long Haul Flights? Be it Boeing, Airbus, FAA, EASA, ICAO, or anything?
Regards,
Gards!
Joined: Mar 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,558
Likes: 155
From: BC
ULH is usually 16 to 18+hrs, four cockpit crew, usually 2 captains, 2 F/O's, sometimes 1 captain, 1 F/O, 1 Augment F/O, 1 Relief Pilot. ULH usually has dedicated layover and crew rest-at-home rules. Singapore has state regulations reflecting these requirements.
Canada on the other hand, has no such thing as "ultra" long haul because the government of Canada doesn't recognize fatigue as a safety issue. Transport Canada, the Regulator, ignores science, refuses to engage in Fatigue Risk Management discussions which will result in shorter duty days and therefore sides with the airlines just like IATA used to when it comes to duty day regulations.
Pilots must spend negotiating dollars to do the Regulator's work as far as fatigue risk management goes.
As a result, Transport Canada still thinks that 23hrs* on duty with three crew members and a bunk is safe. Canada is a Monrovia for those operators who wish to ignore duty days entirely. Truckers are grounded after 13hrs on the road but, unlike the trucking industry, there are no penalties or legal/corporate risk to pilots or airlines who "may" make their crews fly over even these generous duty day regulations. You must tell Transport that you've done it though...
Sorry for the advertisement but I'll take every chance I can to point out that this argument has been going on since the first 4-engine airliner launched and probably longer. The regulations here governing duty days haven't changed in half a century.
PJ2
*20hrs is the max but the regulations provide "relief" for "Unforeseen Circumstances".
Canada on the other hand, has no such thing as "ultra" long haul because the government of Canada doesn't recognize fatigue as a safety issue. Transport Canada, the Regulator, ignores science, refuses to engage in Fatigue Risk Management discussions which will result in shorter duty days and therefore sides with the airlines just like IATA used to when it comes to duty day regulations.
Pilots must spend negotiating dollars to do the Regulator's work as far as fatigue risk management goes.
As a result, Transport Canada still thinks that 23hrs* on duty with three crew members and a bunk is safe. Canada is a Monrovia for those operators who wish to ignore duty days entirely. Truckers are grounded after 13hrs on the road but, unlike the trucking industry, there are no penalties or legal/corporate risk to pilots or airlines who "may" make their crews fly over even these generous duty day regulations. You must tell Transport that you've done it though...
Sorry for the advertisement but I'll take every chance I can to point out that this argument has been going on since the first 4-engine airliner launched and probably longer. The regulations here governing duty days haven't changed in half a century.
PJ2
*20hrs is the max but the regulations provide "relief" for "Unforeseen Circumstances".
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,306
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From: Canada
That would be flying my 65H/P Aeronca Champ from Vancouver to Lachute PQ in the dead of winter, 33 hours in the air,{lost track of how many stops} Toronto direct the Middle East doesnt get close to this flight, may go back the other way next year!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 217
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From: Uptown
This is written in my company's operation manual, others might be different :-
VR
Ultra Long Range Operation
An operation by a Two Crew Aircraft requiring three or more pilots involving a time difference of six hours or more between the places where the Duty Period starts and finishes.
An operation by a Two Crew Aircraft requiring three or more pilots involving a time difference of six hours or more between the places where the Duty Period starts and finishes.
VR
