A320 - Arming Approach
Joined: Apr 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,652
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From: Europe
Mig3, that's another incident. I am talking about the reason you have to deselect approach after becoming visual before disconnecting the AP, as per the airbus OEB. (too lazy to look up the number, if it rings a bell, you know what I am referring to)
Zoneair, did you ever hear of the DC10 crew that thought it pretty harmless to pull a CB for some engine indicator at cruising altitude? They blew up an engine in the proces, tearing a hole in the fuselage, killing a passenger. I'm not saying arming approach will have that effect in the cruise, but you just don't know for sure whatever undiscovered glitch you might encounter. Cruise level is not the place to experiment if you ask me.
Zoneair, did you ever hear of the DC10 crew that thought it pretty harmless to pull a CB for some engine indicator at cruising altitude? They blew up an engine in the proces, tearing a hole in the fuselage, killing a passenger. I'm not saying arming approach will have that effect in the cruise, but you just don't know for sure whatever undiscovered glitch you might encounter. Cruise level is not the place to experiment if you ask me.
Joined: Oct 2009
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From: UK
Hi,
I don't think there is anything on the MCP which will blow holes in an aeroplane. If the designers hadn't tested the effects of a mistaken button press whilst the aircraft was in the cruise - then it would never have been certified.
There is always the big red button which would prevent the "wrong" button press from developing too far.
I don't think there is anything on the MCP which will blow holes in an aeroplane. If the designers hadn't tested the effects of a mistaken button press whilst the aircraft was in the cruise - then it would never have been certified.
There is always the big red button which would prevent the "wrong" button press from developing too far.
Joined: Apr 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 491
From: Europe
OEB 188/2
One Operator reported a case where the flight crew initiated a Go Around slightly below the Minimum Descent Altitude (MDA), and the aircraft didnot pitch up as expected. The flight crew performed a non precision approach (a VORDME approach) using the FINAL APP managed guidance mode with the AP1 (Autopilot) engaged during the final approach. This OEB is issued to provide flight crews with an operational procedure to avoid such aircraft behavior. The operational procedure provided in this OEB applies to all Non Precision Approaches, for both conventional approaches and RNAV approaches, flown in FINAL APP managed guidance mode.
Rudderrat, please tell us which other glitches the elaborate testing program has not yet discovered! I'm not being paranoid or anything, all I'm saying is that the button is not meant to be pressed at FL350, and that I don't want to be the one that finds out there might be a problem doing so anyway.
One Operator reported a case where the flight crew initiated a Go Around slightly below the Minimum Descent Altitude (MDA), and the aircraft didnot pitch up as expected. The flight crew performed a non precision approach (a VORDME approach) using the FINAL APP managed guidance mode with the AP1 (Autopilot) engaged during the final approach. This OEB is issued to provide flight crews with an operational procedure to avoid such aircraft behavior. The operational procedure provided in this OEB applies to all Non Precision Approaches, for both conventional approaches and RNAV approaches, flown in FINAL APP managed guidance mode.
Rudderrat, please tell us which other glitches the elaborate testing program has not yet discovered! I'm not being paranoid or anything, all I'm saying is that the button is not meant to be pressed at FL350, and that I don't want to be the one that finds out there might be a problem doing so anyway.
Joined: Oct 2009
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From: UK
Hi Penko,
The big red button and manually pitching up would definitely solve the problem you mention above. The autopilot doesn't have to be in control all the time.
There are probably more glitches waiting to be found - besides the severe reset of both FMGCs if your fix radial happens to cross the final approach track etc.
The big red button and manually pitching up would definitely solve the problem you mention above. The autopilot doesn't have to be in control all the time.
There are probably more glitches waiting to be found - besides the severe reset of both FMGCs if your fix radial happens to cross the final approach track etc.
Last edited by rudderrudderrat; 13th May 2010 at 08:46. Reason: layout
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: location location
PENKO
I think your lack of ambition to fully understand the nuances and complexities of an aircraft that you (presumably) fly extremely worrying.
The OEB you allude to is concerning go/around from a fully managed NPA not a precision approach so irrelevant to anyone with a basic understanding of Airbus.
Tell me does a managed VOR approach fly down the green line,the GPS derived track to touchdown,the inbound course from the RADNAV page?
In an FMS2 aircraft for example (if you can be bothered to check!) the RADNAV page does not tune to the approach ILS frequency until within 250nm to touchdown(or is it track miles,or direct?) so will arming the approach actually do anything outside 250nm?
On your autoland does the aircraft yaw on landing with reference to its last GPS derived track to touchdown, or does it yaw in relation to the inbound course you (presumably) checked at 700'? Does it change if the aircraft is CPIPS1 or 3,FMS1 or 2 ,honeywell or collins equipment?
This is not a Cessna 150 my friend, it is a COMPLEX MACHINE.Lack of technical knowledge has caused many many accidents amongst the "whats it doing now" brigade.
If you cant be bothered to get your head in the books and merely want to push some coloured buttons go and work at Tesco check out
I think your lack of ambition to fully understand the nuances and complexities of an aircraft that you (presumably) fly extremely worrying.
The OEB you allude to is concerning go/around from a fully managed NPA not a precision approach so irrelevant to anyone with a basic understanding of Airbus.
Tell me does a managed VOR approach fly down the green line,the GPS derived track to touchdown,the inbound course from the RADNAV page?
In an FMS2 aircraft for example (if you can be bothered to check!) the RADNAV page does not tune to the approach ILS frequency until within 250nm to touchdown(or is it track miles,or direct?) so will arming the approach actually do anything outside 250nm?
On your autoland does the aircraft yaw on landing with reference to its last GPS derived track to touchdown, or does it yaw in relation to the inbound course you (presumably) checked at 700'? Does it change if the aircraft is CPIPS1 or 3,FMS1 or 2 ,honeywell or collins equipment?
This is not a Cessna 150 my friend, it is a COMPLEX MACHINE.Lack of technical knowledge has caused many many accidents amongst the "whats it doing now" brigade.
If you cant be bothered to get your head in the books and merely want to push some coloured buttons go and work at Tesco check out
Joined: Apr 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 491
From: Europe
Angel, if you spend as much time reading FCOM as trying to understand what I'm actually saying in my post, you would not have wasted your time typing a message that really only says: 'look how smart I think I am'.
I don't wish to enter a contest to see who can pee the further. But, there is an old saying in aviation, older than any Airbus. It's about old pilots and bold pilots. Heard of it? We'll that's basically all I'm saying. We've all seen planes do things they're not supposed to do, and things we thought it was not supposed to do. So stick to what you know as much as possible and leave experimenting high up in the stratosphere to Jean Claude of Toulouse!
But thanks anyway for those little techy facts, I was feeling quite bored and unchallenged after completing my six monthly tech questionnaire, so now I have some new things to look up. Very grateful sir/madam. Not sure I'll bother about the Collins stuff though!
I don't wish to enter a contest to see who can pee the further. But, there is an old saying in aviation, older than any Airbus. It's about old pilots and bold pilots. Heard of it? We'll that's basically all I'm saying. We've all seen planes do things they're not supposed to do, and things we thought it was not supposed to do. So stick to what you know as much as possible and leave experimenting high up in the stratosphere to Jean Claude of Toulouse!
But thanks anyway for those little techy facts, I was feeling quite bored and unchallenged after completing my six monthly tech questionnaire, so now I have some new things to look up. Very grateful sir/madam. Not sure I'll bother about the Collins stuff though!
Last edited by PENKO; 12th May 2010 at 12:33.
