advise pax re using spoilers

[vapilot2004]

Not so sure about spoiler deployment announcements but...

It is always good form to make a short and sweet PA when the fires go out in all engines ala Speedbird 9.

[fredgrav]

I think the spoilers allow the plane to lose height on landing approach without increasing speed

spoilers create an extra-drag that can both help decelerating the a/c or increasing the vertical speed without any further "forward" speed increase.

some pilots apply them without any warning to pax, causing alarm down the back as this part of the plane shakes, Is it the disturbed air from the main wings hitting the tailwings ? several times Ive had to reasure people around me that its only the spoilers and all is OK

It's true that, as for any commercial flight, you fly people not planes ... at that purpose it would be appropriate, whenever possible, to properly inform passengers about what's gonna happen. That said, if you're goin' to use speedbrakes to increase your VS (eg. very high on vert. prof), thus assuming attitudes that a pax may find unusual, here the announcement could be of use. Anyway, should you be goin' to deploy speed brakes just to slow the a/c down, no announcement would be required as your pax's couldn't care less about what you're doing to fly the a/c.

I'd suggest everyone to have a look on this .pdf:

http://www.smartcockpit.com/data/pdf...Passengers.pdf

Happy Landings,
fredgrav

[Piltdown Man]

But I think he took his time to tell the punters. He was more concerned with re-starting the donks than telling the SLF that he was about to. Aviate, Navigate....

PM

[vapilot2004]

Agreed PM, timing is everything.

[Agaricus bisporus]

PPPPPP

ie, if you set up the descent properly there should be no need to resort to the mistake handle. Sure, sometimes shortened routes/directs require some extra help, but there are several methods to increase ROD before you need to resort to such a crude and un-pax-friendly method. Of course there are occasions - particularly in intermediate descent at high speed with shortcuts given it may be valid.

Using speedbrake to "slow the aeroplane down"??????????? Jeez - that really is showing lack of planning!

However the use of speedbrake in conjunction with flaps on my type - 737 (a procedure frowned upon by Boeing but prevalent in my co) is the most extraordinarily cack-handed technique. A)Boeing advise us not to,so why do it it all? B) it has virtually no effect on rod below 250kts so what's the point? 3) it shakes the aeroplane and must add to pax stress and finally, 4) on finals with flap selected the next thing you're going to call for is gear, and that does affect rod - so why not call for gear early instead???? - and make sure of returning to profile?

Christ, we'll be having people sideslipping on approach next.

[PaulEMB]

Whilst I agree with most of the comments regarding en route comments and explanations, I was pleasantly surprised by the KLM Captain on KL 1705 from AMS to MAD last Wednesday, especially given the day in question, to take the time to come out to the gate after 30 mins delay, and explain he was trying to get a new routing out of Holland via German airspace, as that was the only way left out of Holland (around 5pm), and the having obtained the new routing, promptly loaded and set off.

When we returned to the gate 10 mins later as Dutch airspace was closed, there was no word of complaint or upset amongst the many SLF, despire the fact there were no ground staff to meet us at our new gate on return.

Perhaps a few words at the right time ?

[400drvr]

Speed brakes and passengers

Wasn't aware I had to advise the passengers whenever I decide to use a flight control system for speed or height control. Typically when speed brakes are deployed it's a busy time in the cockpit and talking to the cabin can cause an unnecessary distraction to the pilots. In addition most airlines do not allow PA's from the cockpit below 10000', again a safety issue. So for those of you who are alarmed by the use of speed brakes be glad they are not used all the time and remember if there is a problem we will let you know.

[glhcarl]

Many years ago the LTU inflight magazine had a section that described the different things a passenger would experience during a the flight, including the different noises that would be heard. I though every airline should do the same.

[lynn789]

none the less, on some airlines they warn of the buffeting from spoilers and on some airlines they dont, I guess the pilots never get to sit down the back in steerage to experience it, Ive seen it cause concern and alarm

[Caudillo]

am I the only airline pilot who gives a running commentary of what I'm doing over the PA?

I can't tell if this is sarcasm, but if it isn't - I pray to God Almighty you are.

[wiggy]

Ab

you set up the descent properly there should be no need to resort to the mistake handle

Funnily enough I've had so many guys drop flap at placard minus one, or **** off US ATC by slowing early/or***** me off by busting a gate that I now brief the P2s that if they need spoiler use it, and dont regard it as a mistake.......but that's just me....

But I don't do the "spoiler" PAs either........

[AnthonyGA]

Lynn has a point.....am I the only airline pilot who gives a running commentary of what I'm doing over the PA?

If you do it in the United States below 10,000 feet or while in movement on the ground, you are in violation of 14 CFR 121.542 (for airlines). Explaining how the airplane works or other pedagogic announcements are not essential to the safety of the flight and are therefore prohibited. Your job is to fly the aircraft, not to make presentations to passengers.

A number of recent accidents have been linked in part to non-essential conversation in the cockpit, so this is not a good time to test the leniency of the FAA.

[400drvr]

PAX and speed brakes continued

I understand that the use of speed brakes can be unsettling, but it can be done in such a way to minimize discomfort and alarm. When ever I feel the need to use them I open them slowly so that the passengers are not alarmed by the initial buffeting they cause.

Additionally the airline I work for English is a second language and since I don't speak the language of the airline I work for making a PA announcement would require both pilots taking the time to make a PA in two different languages, again time consuming and distracting, time might be better spent listening to what ATC might want you to do.

In the future I will keep in mind your thoughts and see how I might be able to inform the passengers in a timely manner that the rumbling they might feel in the descent is entirely normal.

Cheers!

[shortfuel]

Speedbrakes PA.... what's next??? A reverse PA during landing-roll, a visual approach PA...how about one on thrust noise fluctuation during gusty arrivals?

And in case of a screwed up landing, do you grab your PA to apologize as well?

[Floppy Link]

...I guess the pilots never get to sit down the back in steerage to experience it...

I hope you were joking...when I joined my first airline 15 years ago I did more sectors as a passenger in the first 6 months after training than I had done in the previous 30 years...there's a lot of crew positioning in any airline, longhaul or shorthaul.

[olepilot]

is this really the professional pilots network?

[Centaurus]

Quote:
Lynn has a point.....am I the only airline pilot who gives a running commentary of what I'm doing over the PA?

"Ladies and Gentlemen, I am just about to extend the flaps, that is the slight lift you'll feel. Now, the loud noise you're about to hear is the sound of the wheels being lowered for landing and if you can hear a slight slurping noise, I did tell you at the beginning of the flight that our cabin crew really are here to make the flight as enjoyable as possible. Thank you for flying with us today."

He is winding us up. Surely no sane pilot would ever contemplate coming over the PA with that stuff. Unless, of course he loves the sound of his own voice and that happens a lot.

[mrfox]

if you can hear a slight slurping noise, I did tell you at the beginning of the flight that our cabin crew really are here to make the flight as enjoyable as possible. Thank you for flying with us today."

Which airline do you fly for? Because I would like to buy a round trip, long haul ticket... to anywhere... it doesn't matter.

Wait... you did mention they are female cabin crew right?

[PENKO]

The only thing worth mentioning on this thread is that on the 737 it might be nice not to yank those speedbrakes. Deploy them slooowly. After years of flying the 737 both as a pilot and as a commuter in the back, I can say that wacking out the speedbrakes can be very startling because of the sudden jolt. Take them out slowly and no-one is bothered. Of course, every cadet on the 737 knows that after the first try.

Anyway, as most pilots will tell you, I have never ever heard nor seen any pilot do a PA about spoilers.

[MarkerInbound]

"Didn't the B727 have a "Limitation" against extending SpdBrks with the LG EXTENDED?"

No speed brakes and FLAPS in the 727. Speed brakes and and gear was just .. impressive.