Thick Heavy Black Smoke
Thread Starter
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From: Florida
Thick Heavy Black Smoke
Hello,
I was watching a G4 take off. From the engines spooling up to, till as far as I can see her disappear, I can see thick trail of black smoke out of both engine. It used a good amount of rwy so knowing she's heavy I realise. Can someone explain what this usually means? I was first thinking maybe that's an indication of service times are coming up. What else? This is got me curious.....
I was watching a G4 take off. From the engines spooling up to, till as far as I can see her disappear, I can see thick trail of black smoke out of both engine. It used a good amount of rwy so knowing she's heavy I realise. Can someone explain what this usually means? I was first thinking maybe that's an indication of service times are coming up. What else? This is got me curious.....
Smoke
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Brighton
So can someone explain why low by-pass ratio engines produce so much black smoke?
Standing by for incoming from the West!
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Florida
Nothing to do with bypass ratio. Look at photos of, say, F-86 and B-47, both powered by straight jets. Black smoke is unburnt carbon from incomplete combustion. The US engine technology of the time was not capable of full combustion. Compare British engines of the same time, e.g. Derwent, Ghost, Avon, Sapphire - little or no smoke because of better combustion technology.
The smoke thing was a nusisance visually like chemtrails
but of more serious concern in the military.From an engine cycle effiicency (lb of fuel per lb of thrust per hour) it had little impact.
The designers addressed it by moving holes arround in the burner cans inside the engine. In the end, same internal pressures and temperatures and same fuel efficiency, just turned up the heat in local areas inside the burner.
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From: Where the Quaboag River flows, USA
B-52s thru the G model, like the KC135As used water injection on take-off. No water, no take-off. Water ran out at about 400 feet, which someone here said is how 400 became the end of Zone I or level-off height.
GF
GF
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From: France
Admittedly slightly O/T, but I've always wondered why Sud/BAC and RR didn't do something sooner about the smoke of the prototype Concorde engines, and in particular before sending 001 and 002 on world tours.....
By the time the preprod aircraft flew, with annular combustion chambers and very much less smoke, all the tree-huggers were already out in force.
CJ
By the time the preprod aircraft flew, with annular combustion chambers and very much less smoke, all the tree-huggers were already out in force.
CJ
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From: USA
Black smoke is unburnt fuel.
By lower bypass ratio I believe the above poster was referring to blade clearances.
Other factors such as burner section design and nozzels that spray fuel to atomize better in conjunction with higher pressure ratios burn a much larger percentage of fuel resulting in increased engine efficiency and lower emissions.
High bypass engines become more efficient and burn less fuel because a larger percentage of thrust is created by the fan. But remember this, higher tolerance engines become less tolerant, we counteract this by creating tougher materials to make these engines less susceptable to failure. Progress and failure in the desire to progress are just a factor of life.
By lower bypass ratio I believe the above poster was referring to blade clearances.
Other factors such as burner section design and nozzels that spray fuel to atomize better in conjunction with higher pressure ratios burn a much larger percentage of fuel resulting in increased engine efficiency and lower emissions.
High bypass engines become more efficient and burn less fuel because a larger percentage of thrust is created by the fan. But remember this, higher tolerance engines become less tolerant, we counteract this by creating tougher materials to make these engines less susceptable to failure. Progress and failure in the desire to progress are just a factor of life.
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From: France
Storm...
The Caravelle was not so much a 'crackle' as a screeching, tearing noise.
Concorde may have produced more decibels, but it was a lower-pitched roar.
The Caravelle was 'ear-splitting'....
CJ
The Caravelle was not so much a 'crackle' as a screeching, tearing noise.
Concorde may have produced more decibels, but it was a lower-pitched roar.
The Caravelle was 'ear-splitting'....
CJ
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: Arizona USA
... which someone here said is how 400 became the end of Zone I or level-off height.
Also consider screen height, jets 35 feet, piston aircraft, 50 feet.
Why the lower figure for jets?
Believe it or not, some of the early types (B707-120 for example), simply could not meet the fifty foot requirement anticipated, performance-wise, so the screen height was lowered to 35 feet.
Some of those early models were...lead sleds, in the extreme.
Aviator Extraordinaire
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From: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
Believe it or not, some of the early types (B707-120 for example), simply could not meet the fifty foot requirement anticipated, performance-wise, so the screen height was lowered to 35 feet.
Some of those early models were...lead sleds, in the extreme.
Some of those early models were...lead sleds, in the extreme.
I can recall quite a few accidents in the KC-135 caused by the failure of the water injection system. One of the worse was in Wichita, Kansas. They lost water injection right at rotation, they immediately started dumping fuel out of the refueling probe, but to no avail. The aircraft crashed and the flames from the resulting crash followed the stream of dumped fuel and caused a lot of homes to be burned down causing the deaths of a lot of people on the ground. A total of 30 people were killed, the seven crew members and twenty three people on the ground.
City of Wichita - 11 - The Reawakening 1965
