Bae 146 decompression ???
Thread Starter
Bae 146 decompression ???
Heard a rumour (strange that eh ?!) about a 146 from a South East operator having a decompression somewhere over the East of England ?? anyone know anything about it ?? just curious.......lol
F/o
F/o
Thread Starter
Well, granted they may not fly at an altitude/FL that may cause huge concern, was just keen to know the story (if there is one...!!), just heard one or two rumours about this and was interested ! will wait and see i guess........
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I was told they were limited to FL290 because the skin was too thin to take more pressurization.
Pacific Southwest Airlines had a decompression in the 1980s at 270 when #4 engine came apart and sent hot shrapnel into the cabin. It missed everybody, but pieces were sizzling on the carpet as SLF kicked them around to prevent a fire.
rdr
Pacific Southwest Airlines had a decompression in the 1980s at 270 when #4 engine came apart and sent hot shrapnel into the cabin. It missed everybody, but pieces were sizzling on the carpet as SLF kicked them around to prevent a fire.
rdr
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The 146 is certified to FL310 or FL300 depending on model. They're limited to FL280 simply because they are not RVSM capable. I think that the ASI is not corrected for compressibility and thus you have to level off approx 100ft below your planned FL and the aircraft will apparently "climb" the last bit as the speed increases.
I did a test flight once at FL310 in the 146 unpressurised. There was an almost overwhelming desire to take the mask off just to see what would happen.
I did a test flight once at FL310 in the 146 unpressurised. There was an almost overwhelming desire to take the mask off just to see what would happen.
There was an almost overwhelming desire to take the mask off just to see what would happen.
You just lose consciousness - there one second, gone the next.
No feeling of dizziness or other warning - I argued with the doc that I hadn't passed out - I had.
Clone of Victor Meldrew
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Quite staggering!
Last evening I overheard guys talking about this event in my local pub!
The the gist of the story related to an airtest, problems with a hatch lock and the crew oxygen.
I just hope the flight was not being flown by a management pilot!!
390
Waiting for the final report!
The the gist of the story related to an airtest, problems with a hatch lock and the crew oxygen.
I just hope the flight was not being flown by a management pilot!!
390
Waiting for the final report!
Thread Starter
Thanks for the info. guys - most useful !
Interesting about the pub conversation 390cruise - guess that confirms my source is at least correct in that it happened ! lol - and totally agree, would be awfully embarassing i guess if a management pilot !
Interesting about the pub conversation 390cruise - guess that confirms my source is at least correct in that it happened ! lol - and totally agree, would be awfully embarassing i guess if a management pilot !
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Rapid Decompression at 20,000ft, time of useful consciousness = 3mins. 
Perhaps the CAA will deliver out 1000 lines to the individual concerned:
"I will do my checks before I start the aircraft"
"I will do my checks before I start the aircraft"
"I will.......
The fact I have to fly up in the air in the same airspace as this imbecile is simply abhorrent. It's a disgrace!
Perhaps the CAA will deliver out 1000 lines to the individual concerned:
"I will do my checks before I start the aircraft"
"I will do my checks before I start the aircraft"
"I will.......
The fact I have to fly up in the air in the same airspace as this imbecile is simply abhorrent. It's a disgrace!
Low Pressure Training Chamber
There was an almost overwhelming desire to take the mask off just to see what would happen.
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I was told they were limited to FL290 because the skin was too thin to take more pressurization.
The 146 is certified to FL310 or FL300 depending on model. They're limited to FL280 simply because they are not RVSM capable.
The max operating altitude depends on the pressurisation system fitted.
If you have a BAe Dynamics analogue system, it's FL300 or FL310.
If you have an NGL analogue system, it's also FL300 or FL310.
However, if you have an NGL digital system fitted, the max operating altitude is FL350.
FCOM 2.2.13 for anyone who doesn't believe me...
And the airframe is plenty strong enough to go higher than that, being British...
Also, the only thing you need to do to a 146 to get RVSM approval is fit proper digital altimeters. That fixes all the altimeter inaccuracies that have always plagued the 146.
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Agreed the 146 is one of the original Brick outhouses.....but take a look at one when pressurised on the ground!! (Maintenance Procedure). The fwd fuselage where there are few if any stringers and only the frames and skin the skin can be seen to bulge out between the frames!! A good machine to keep flying...
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I tend to believe Irish Jet Driver re RVSM. The elderly 146's we had in Citiexpress were limited to FL260 even on MAN-FRA and INV-LGW, probably because it was dangerous to fly them any higher lol. Mind you the most basic of machines G-MABR proved her worth many times over.
I thought the hairdryers would prove useless above FL260, then what do you expect from engines that worked better on helicopters...
And that brings me to the E145 that although limited to FL370 hit FL390 to clear the top of a CB and was briefly grounded on arrival for checks. No doubt there's redundancy built in all of these.
I thought the hairdryers would prove useless above FL260, then what do you expect from engines that worked better on helicopters...
And that brings me to the E145 that although limited to FL370 hit FL390 to clear the top of a CB and was briefly grounded on arrival for checks. No doubt there's redundancy built in all of these.
I can confirm that it was a relatively easy exercise to upgrade the BAe146's altimetry so that it would conform to RVSM requirements.
However, the mods were horrendously expensive and simply not worth the effort.
The reduction in fuel burn between F310 with RVSM and F280 without RVSM was pretty well negligble.
Don't forget that the average stage length was probably less than 1.5 hours so you weren't up there for very long.
From my point of view, the best part of flying the 146 was the fact that it ran out of fuel after 3.5 hours! (Sitting on your ar*e for 14 hours is not the best of fun once the novelty has worn off).
However, the mods were horrendously expensive and simply not worth the effort.
The reduction in fuel burn between F310 with RVSM and F280 without RVSM was pretty well negligble.
Don't forget that the average stage length was probably less than 1.5 hours so you weren't up there for very long.
From my point of view, the best part of flying the 146 was the fact that it ran out of fuel after 3.5 hours! (Sitting on your ar*e for 14 hours is not the best of fun once the novelty has worn off).
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Once did ZAG-MAD and that was around the 4 hr mark. 146-300 could hit FL310 whereas the -100/-200 were FL290 limited from memory. Could not enter RVSM airspace due to the altimetry system originating from a sopwith camel! Aircraft without the TGT roll back (eng a/ice valve mod) being incorporated were limited to FL260 in icing conditions.
Still a pretty decent aircraft but it did keep us engineers busy, great for contracting though....lots of overtime!
Still a pretty decent aircraft but it did keep us engineers busy, great for contracting though....lots of overtime!
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God I loved the low alt 146. With ALF 502/503's, we were blowing engines left and right on the 100, so the company took us out and three-engined takeoff qualled all of us in the actual airplane! They figured we were all going to be at an out station and would need to ferry it back to a mtc base sooner or later! Interesting procedure. We wouldn't spool up the asymmetrical engine until 80 kts.
That was my first clue to update my resume....
Solution was to throttle back to .75 cruise according to Avco Lycoming. Of course, on a busy corridor in the cheap fuel days that made us very unpopular. We started having to file for FL260 and often got much lower because ATC got tired of vectoring us off the airway to let everybody by.
But with those big beautiful picture windows on a new airplane at low altitude over the mountains it was a shear delight, even if it wasn't particularly profitable. Next job was old 74 freighters where most of the windows were so crazed I couldn't see out at all!
Ah the 146. Small gas tanks, pretty girls, home all the time...
Not sure now why I wanted to commute just to fly the big iron....
That was my first clue to update my resume....
Solution was to throttle back to .75 cruise according to Avco Lycoming. Of course, on a busy corridor in the cheap fuel days that made us very unpopular. We started having to file for FL260 and often got much lower because ATC got tired of vectoring us off the airway to let everybody by.
But with those big beautiful picture windows on a new airplane at low altitude over the mountains it was a shear delight, even if it wasn't particularly profitable. Next job was old 74 freighters where most of the windows were so crazed I couldn't see out at all!
Ah the 146. Small gas tanks, pretty girls, home all the time...
Not sure now why I wanted to commute just to fly the big iron....
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In early 1990s a BAe146 suffered a total (yep all 4) engine failure/s due icing. The aircraft was operating at FL310 between Karratha and Perth when the crew called mayday.
Engine restart was achieved when the aircraft was around 10,000ft. VH-JJP was the reg operating as Airlines of WA flight. Since then all Australian 146s have been limited to below FL290.
I am pretty sure the limitation is still in effect. ATSB report should be available on the ATSB site.
Engine restart was achieved when the aircraft was around 10,000ft. VH-JJP was the reg operating as Airlines of WA flight. Since then all Australian 146s have been limited to below FL290.
I am pretty sure the limitation is still in effect. ATSB report should be available on the ATSB site.
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Bral - ta.
I was on APP in Perth the night it happened. Very quiet room when he made the call and for the next 20 minutes or so. Was most pleased when he got them going again, not as pleased as the people on board though!!
I was on APP in Perth the night it happened. Very quiet room when he made the call and for the next 20 minutes or so. Was most pleased when he got them going again, not as pleased as the people on board though!!